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Chasing the freedom to rule our own lives

By Rodney Croome

Posted May 16, 2008 08:23:00
Updated May 16, 2008 09:35:00

LtoR Mildred Loving and her husband Richard P Loving

Mildred Loving: "I believe all Americans, no matter their race, no matter their sex, no matter their sexual orientation, should have that same freedom to marry." (www.democraticunderground.com)

Freedom is rarely associated with marriage. Too many ill-considered and unhappy unions have seen to that.

But for those people denied the right to marry the person they love, marriage is synonymous with freedom. The association between the equality in marriage and freedom from second-class status is well understood by people of colour.

In 1958, in the midst of the struggle for black civil rights in America, Martin Luther King declared:

"When any society says that I cannot marry a certain person, that society has cut off a segment of my freedom."

A black woman from Virginia, Mildred Loving, was so inspired by this idea that she and her husband Richard took state laws barring their interracial union all the way to the US Supreme Court and in 1967 succeeded in having them struck down.

Mildred Loving, who died two weeks ago aged 68, is known around the world as a champion of freedom to marry.

Sadly, what many Australians don't realise is that laws similar to those against which Mrs Loving fought, existed here for a century, and were central to the struggle for Aboriginal rights.

Beginning in Victoria in the 1860s and reaching their apogee in WA and Queensland in the 1930s, Aboriginal Protection Acts included provisions allowing state officials to determine who Aborigines could or couldn't marry.

These laws were used for different purposes at different times.

Queensland's policy was generally one of preventing black/white unions, US-style.

WA's evolved in the opposite direction, preventing "half-castes" from marrying other Aborigines in order to "breed out the colour".

But no matter what the racist purpose of these policies, the effect was the same: personal tragedy and political disenfranchisement.

The Sydney and Melbourne-based Aboriginal activists who emerged from the labour movement in the 1920s to fight for better wages and conditions for black workers were slow to pick up on the link between the freedom to marry and full citizenship.

Not so those directly disadvantaged by the laws, including the "half-caste" women of Broome, who declared in a petition in 1935:

"Sometimes we have the chance to marry a man of our own choice. We ask for our Freedom so that when the chance comes along we can rule our lives and make ourselves true and good citizens."

Thanks to voices like these, freedom to marry rose to the top of the Australian Aboriginal rights agenda, second only to the right to vote, and stayed there until the states repealed their Protection Acts, and a the national referendum of 1967 confirmed full Aboriginal citizenship.

Parallel

There's an obvious parallel between the historic struggle of blacks for marriage choice, and today's struggle by gays and lesbians for the same choice.

It's not simply that the former was told which race to marry, while the latter is told which sex.

It's not just that trend-setting places like California, the first in the US to allow different-race marriages, today became one of the first to allow same-sex marriages.

It's about freedom from prejudice and freedom to fully share the joys of family life.

Mildred Loving saw these links when, on the 40th anniversary of the court decision that bears her name, she declared:

"I believe all Americans, no matter their race, no matter their sex, no matter their sexual orientation, should have that same freedom to marry. I am proud that Richard's and my name are on a court case that can help reinforce the love, the commitment, the fairness, and the family that so many people, black or white, young or old, gay or straight, seek in life."

But for me the link runs even deeper.

Think for a moment of all the other groups in society, along with blacks and gays, who at one time or another have been denied the right to marry the partner of their choice: women, young people, people from differing faiths, people with disabilities, servants, foreigners and convicts.

What they all have in common is that they have been regarded as too immature or irresponsible to make what is arguably the most important decision any individual can ever make, the choice of a life-long partner.

Instead they were told that their hearts were untrustworthy and they should marry as society dictates, or not at all.

In the same vein, the gradual acceptance that members of these groups are fully adult, fully citizens and fully human, has been accompanied by an acceptance of their right to marry whomever they wished.

It is this acceptance of gay and lesbian Australians as fully equal members of the Australian nation and the human family which lies behind my support for equal marriage.

My ardent hope is for the day when, like Mildred Loving and the half-caste women of Broome, we too will be free to rule our own lives.

Rodney Croome is a spokesperson for the Australian Coalition for Equality.

Tags: community-and-society, marriage, gays-and-lesbians, race-relations, family, sexuality, australia, united-states

Comments (98)

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  • Ford:

    16 May 2008 8:49:48am

    Meh, marriage is dead...long live living in sin!!
    The laws certainly aren't going to change under PM Howard II and the current ALP, and I can't see the Coalition having a change of heart...if they even have one.

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  • Pauline:

    16 May 2008 9:23:51am

    Pity then about California's anti Affirmayive-Action proposition 209 which overturned some of the Civil rights gains of the 1960s on education and employment on the basis of race and gender.This proposition was driven by right-wing conservatives fighting against the implementation of desegregation, of which the miscegenation laws are one aspect.

    Why does California receive praise for this decision on equality in marriage, but no condemnation for its part in undermining equality in employment and education?

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      • Taro Munn:

        16 May 2008 3:36:08pm

        I totally agree with you. Comparing Australia with California is not necessarily right. Sure they may go with gay marriage (which as a Christian I object to), but they have the death penalty which is a abhorrent and barbaric punishment which is open to flaws. At least Australia has abolished capital punishment.

        Just because California does something does not mean Australia should follow.

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          • Ford:

            17 May 2008 11:30:15am

            The Bible condones capital punishment, and indeed, encourages it.
            Perhaps you need to study (as a christian) your faith more carefully.

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              • taro mnunn:

                18 May 2008 5:24:38pm

                Ford,

                True the Old Testament did have quotes which condone capital punishment, but in the New Testament presents an opposite view as per John 8:7 says:

                But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."

                My point was to back up Paulines California is not the complete angel as it appears to be in the opinion piece.

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  • amme:

    16 May 2008 9:27:09am

    Mildred Loving's case bought freedom to choose to California, and i thank her for taking up the battle for equal rights, she most certainly fought for what she believed in and this opened the door for this most recent judgement by the Supreme Court.

    My hope is that this decision will have a flow on effect throughout the world and Australia will finally realise that it should not discriminate against same sex unions.

    I do not expect to ever marry a same sex partner but i should have the right to do this if i so choose. No one has the right to dictate to others who they should or should not love or decide that two people who love each other should not be permitted to publicly declare their love through marriage.

    Ford...marriage is not dead, lots of people still wish and choose to do this, i hope you are wrong and that laws do change so that NO part of the the Australian polulation are discriminated against in relation to their right to marry regardless of their race colour or sexual preference.

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  • heidim:

    16 May 2008 9:30:50am

    It goes a lot deeper than that Ford, the basic right to marry who you choose reflects society's acceptance of the relationship. I don't believe that anyone else should have the right to dictate to me who I can or cannot share my life with (as long as we are both consenting adults). More and more research is showing that we don't choose our sexual orientation - it is an intrinsic part of our makeup - you didn't choose to be heterosexual, I didn't choose to be homosexual - but I did choose not to hide in the closet. Hence, for us, falling in love and wanting to share our lives with a member of the same sex is as normal as you falling for a member of the opposite - why should this be considered wrong and unacceptable?

    Not being able to marry the woman of my dreams denies me many of the privilages that my heterosexual sister takes for granted - even down to basic things such as if I had a serious accident, my partner isn't regarded legally as my next of kin and can't make decisions about my care - my 65 year old brain injured father CAN (I have a enduring power of attorney to counteract this). If I died without a will (which won't happen as I'm very savy with the law BECAUSE of my orientation), then my partner won't be considered for guardianship of my children as they are biologically not hers and she CAN"T adopt, and my parents and siblings would get my estate even though we jointly built it.

    Are you starting to see the ramifications here yet? It's not just about "I do". I love my partner with all my heart and I hope to be with her all my life (and may it be long), but until the laws change, we will always be considered second class.

    I am currently perplexed by Labour's stance - they say that they want our community to enjoy the same privliages as our heterosexual brothers and sisters, yet not be allowed to marry or adopt children - this is unworkable and hypercritical. I hope that it will change over the course of this government.


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      • Ford:

        16 May 2008 9:44:15am

        Position isn't perplexing at all.
        The ALP knows the bigot-Christian/Religious extremist vote far outweights the 'pink' vote...so they're happy to trample the rights of GLBT people to get the votes of the religious right...really very straightforward.
        The ALP wont change as long as Rudd is in power, he's a right wing christian and would probably much rather see all the GLBT people disappear...he will never allow same sex unions, and will actively stop any of the States from doing so.
        It's not fair, it's not right, it's not just...but that's the way the world works.
        I don't need Australian 'society' to accept my relationship, society can kiss my ass if they don't like it.

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          • David:

            16 May 2008 9:53:59am

            I don't think the bigot vote outweighs the pink/don't care vote, it's just that the bigots are noisier and nastier, so they get more attention.

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              • Ford:

                16 May 2008 10:08:03am

                You're probably right.
                I fall into the 'pink & don't care category' I refuse to beg for my rights like some dog at the table asking for scraps, there are plenty of countries that will recognise my relationship...if I have one lol...that will be happy to take me, my partner, my talents and all my taxable income.
                Any country that considers my relationship 'unacceptable' can rot for all I care.

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              • Beren:

                16 May 2008 3:48:38pm

                An interesting point Ford, I have never considered it before, turning my back on Australia and setting up in a nation that regognises me and my partner as equal citizens as opposed to 2nd class.

                I imagine that as long as we have a dominant 2 party system where both parties are against true equality it may take some time for full change to occur. Thank goodness for the courts! They at least give us some avenue for hope.

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              • david:

                18 May 2008 10:06:04am

                Ford, I think you have brought up an important issue without realising it. There is a vast difference between black enfranchisement (in both US and Australia) and the rights of gay people in our society.

                Gay people in our society have the choice to leave for an accepting country, or continue to lobby government until they get what they want. The black people of the US and Australia never had any such choices. They were totally disenfranchised and the marriage laws were a symptom of that, not the cause.

                I feel a little offended by the parallel that has been drawn and think that the victim mentality that some gay people are aiming to project says more about them than about their situation in society. Sure, gay people in the past have suffered discrimination (and still do in certain cases), but it is a different level to what Aboriginal people suffered (who lost a whole country and culture).

                And I am speaking from the point of view of someone who supports gay marriage.

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              • Karlis:

                16 May 2008 3:18:15pm

                The biggots are the votes that swing in marginal electorates, and are most definitely not in the majority over the whole country. And I suggest Pinkos cluster, rendering the seat safe, and therefore less need for attention.

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          • Charis:

            16 May 2008 10:15:37am

            Rudd is "a right wing christian"...? Care to substantiate that comment, Ford?

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              • Ford:

                16 May 2008 10:25:51am

                "Marriage is between a man and a woman" his appearances at Hillsong, his committment to his "faith", his political policies, his attempts to prevent states from allowing same sex unions...

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              • Greg h:

                16 May 2008 12:27:26pm

                So anyone who thinks 'Marriage is between a man and a woman' is a right wing christian? Pretty simple world you reside in.

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              • Ford:

                16 May 2008 12:49:55pm

                If they're using christianity to justify right wing ideals, well, that is the dictionary definition of a right win Christian.
                I would say declaring "marriage is between a man and a woman because the bible says so" is a fairly simplistic view of the world.

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              • Vincent:

                16 May 2008 3:37:25pm

                He didn't assert that marriage "because the bible says so". Yours is a false assertion.

                That marriage is between a man and woman is the product of reason. It's always the gay activists that love to bring religion into this discussion.

                You would think that there is no other religion/culture/place in the world besides Christianity that considers marriage to be between one man and one woman.

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              • Daniel McCusker:

                16 May 2008 7:50:37pm

                I don't know about the "gay activists that love to bring religion into this discussion." When you read down this thread, it's 'Taro Munn''s assertion of Christianity as reason enough for an objection to gay marriage that is the first mention of religion at all.

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              • loggy:

                16 May 2008 5:12:48pm

                If they aren't then they certainly are thinking like one.

                Simple, very simple; if two people love each other and they want to marry then they need help and support from their community, not judgment.

                Cheers

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              • Hoff:

                16 May 2008 7:13:55pm

                His appearences at Hillsong??
                When he addressed the Hillsong church, he warned them of the dangers of "right-wing christianity" and suggested they have an approach to christianity more like that of Dietrich bon Hoffer.
                I think you are misrepresenting Mr Rudd's position, Ford.

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              • Ford:

                17 May 2008 11:25:52am

                It's called 'dog whistling'...Howard and Rudd were masters at it.

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              • Josh:

                18 May 2008 1:09:37am

                What's the harm in calling a spade a spade?

                Mr Rudd is easily as socially conservative as Mr Howard, and given how fluid contemporary definitions of right and left seem to be, it's fair to say that Mr Rudd is as right wing a christian as was/is Mr Howard.

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              • Hoff:

                18 May 2008 6:01:52pm

                Dont be ridiculous. Howard pandered to the extreme right wing Exclusive Brethren but Rudd has branded them a "dangerous Cult".
                They are worlds apart in their religious philosophy. Please stick to the facts!

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          • Danny:

            16 May 2008 10:16:16am

            You may not need society to accept it, but life would be much better if they did.

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          • Vincent:

            16 May 2008 3:29:49pm

            Well Ford, at least you haven't used your shrill voice to label people or engage in bigotry...

            Extraordinary that this type of whinging article is given space on the ABC website.

            The nature of marriage itself precludes gay unions by definition. The gay activist definition of marriage (which ignores sexual complimentarity and human fertility) is not marriage at all.

            Unfortunately the high divorce rates make people cynical about marriage and begin to believe that it can be redefined to something that people can more easily live up to.

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              • Ford:

                16 May 2008 3:38:31pm

                Actually, marriage is traditionally defined as a non-religious communion between a man and several women, that's how it started in the good old days.

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              • david:

                18 May 2008 10:17:03am

                Absolutely. Marriage was not accepted by the church until about 300 years ago, as it was seen as a political union between two royal families. The lower classes were simply trying to copy royalty in demanding marriage. It was a fashion the church thought would pass in time. It didn't, so they decided to go with the flow. It's probably time the church decided to go with the flow again.

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              • Break:

                17 May 2008 7:45:49am

                According to V, "The nature of marriage itself precludes gay unions by definition." What errant nonsense. Definitions are fluid and decided upon, in some sense, by those in power (first year university sociology/polit science course stuff). For example, a child is someone over 12, over 14, under 15, over 16, under 18...and so on depending on who's doing the defining (e.g., an airline company, a cinema complex, a theme park).

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              • Grommo:

                18 May 2008 3:42:49pm

                As a fundamentalist Christian, I think that Gay marriage should not be allowed as the partners are not able to produce offspring by themselves. The purpose of Marriage in the Church's eyes is to enable the conditions to produce offspring.
                As a logical continuation of this , marriages where straight couples prove to be infertile should be annulled. Similarly, elderly marriages where the female partner is above reproductive age, (approx 45) should not be allowed as clearly there is no chance of offspring which could arise from such a union.
                Is it reasonable that Christian societies should be intolerant of Gays and yet be tolerant of other punishments from God such as barrenness and senile decrepitude?
                If these arguments seem absurd then objecting to Gay marriage is equally absurd.

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      • lake57:

        16 May 2008 10:28:19am

        i personally have no problems with same-sex marriage or any desire to inflict any opinions about these matters on anybody and i disregard opinion on my own lifestyle choices.my suggestion for those wanting to marry is to go right ahead.so the state won't sanction it.ignore that,have your own certificates printed (as has often been said,it is just a bit of paper)i remember the character 'brian' from the series 'queer as folk'telling his lover he didnt require the approval of the 'straight'world.something like f... them i'll live my life my way etc etc. and why the desire to conform and marry like 'normal'people?'im a queen,a fag,a...'(more from brian).i dont need approval from bigots and god-fearing control freaks and nor should you.

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          • amme:

            16 May 2008 11:00:31am

            Yes Lake57, Brian from QAF did say that, but he is an ACTOR, and as such, is unlikely to face the same issues as i do or those that Heidi outlined in her post.

            I do not seek approval for my relationships through others but i would like the same rights as the mainstream do, even if i choose never to enact them.

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              • lake57:

                17 May 2008 10:16:31am

                but amme,was that show not written by someone demonstrating that not all of us want the same things?the point of view expressed by 'brian'regardless of him being an actor,is a valid one.just like heidi's.on the topic of marriage i also believe the mormon fundamentalists who marry more than once should be allowed to do so, with a mechanism firmly in place that ensures that no-one is forced to stay or take part unwillingly.(how to implement such an idea i admit is difficult). i read these comments often and am not always in agreement with 'ford' but i find myself applauding his contributions to this topic.well argued.

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              • amme:

                17 May 2008 1:42:02pm

                I absolutely agee with you, and I also agree with some of Ford's sediments for a change. Heidi does raise very valid issues in her post. My referrence to brian was simply in relation to the fact that brian was saying it does not matter what the majority think, but if you read Heidi's post again, it absolutely does matter. As i stated in an earlier post, it is not my intention to 'marry' even though i care deeply about my partner but i do want her to have the right to be 'legally' involved in decisions relating to my future.

                QAF was good in that it raised very real issues for the gay community and got people thinking about discrimination, but it was still a t.v show and while it reflected real life to an extent, it is still a tv show.

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      • Steve M:

        16 May 2008 3:45:34pm

        Hi,

        Precisely what research are you referring to when you say "More and more research is showing that we don't choose our sexual orientation".

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          • Daniel McCusker:

            16 May 2008 8:08:59pm

            A few are listed here. It's a good place to start if you are genuinely interested in reading up on studies that have been published.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality#Why_some_people_are_homosexual

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      • Pen:

        16 May 2008 5:07:25pm

        and to add to that list for things like the Medicare safetynet same sex couples cannot be registered as a family so are also disadvantaged there. Especially where high medical costs are experienced.

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  • Bertrand:

    16 May 2008 9:56:53am

    Once again we have someone who has done a masters in politics thinking that absolutely everything in life revolves around the state.

    Marriage is a religous institution, and when the state interferes, this is bad. Interacial marriage has been officially blessed by the big churches for centuries. Obviously there are racist local branches who ignore that, and certainly society in general would heavily discourage it, but for the most part, the Churches official stance on interacial marriage in the 1930's was for freedom.

    The author here is saying that the state interfering in marriage in the 1930's is bad. Now he is saying that the state should interfere in marriage now. What right does the state have to specify a churches policy on a religous issue?

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      • Ford:

        16 May 2008 10:12:03am

        Hmmm...so what about civil ceremonies?
        By your theory those marriages...well...they don't exist then I guess?
        The state is already interfering in marriage, by banning it, perhaps you're confused Bertrand? Do you not understand who writes the legislation banning same sex marriage? That would be the State, last time I checked the Church doesn't write legislation in the country.
        Mayhaps sometime studying politics would be helpful to you to avoid any further embarassing faux pas :)

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          • Peregrine:

            16 May 2008 10:34:07am

            No Ford the Church does not write legislation, but where do you think the majority of laws governing social relationship and what not come from?

            Thouh shall not kill? Im pretty sure that was the State...

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              • Ford:

                16 May 2008 10:53:31am

                Yes, the Bible also says we can pierce the ears of our slaves, stone people to death for working on the sabbath and perform animal sacrifices...bizarrely, the State has abandoned those laws because they're outdated...indeed, most of the religions have as well.
                I wonder what the Bible has to say about Climate Change legislation, perhaps we should check?

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              • Matt:

                18 May 2008 7:51:42pm

                Climate Change? The bible is probably the foremost authority on climate change. Just read revelation to see where we are headed...

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      • JayR:

        16 May 2008 11:41:25am

        Bertrand, you keep forgetting that marriage was a pagan institution before it was ever linked to religion. Religion just uses it to suit its own purposes (as everything else)

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      • Karlis:

        16 May 2008 11:55:35am

        Betrand, I refer you to the 2003 case:
        http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/family_ct/2003/94.html
        where the state indeed attempted to intervene in marriage.

        This judgement also raise questions about the definition of marriage, whether it is a christian institution (and what's that doing in a secular state) and on what basis should this definition be enforced. (btw: Hindus have marriage, but not churches)

        The question should be asked, what right does the church have to specify a state's (use an apostrophe next time) policy on a social issue?

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      • Brad:

        16 May 2008 12:32:31pm

        Marriage is a common law institution governed by statute law. A marriage certificate confers certain economic and civil rights. If the couple chooses to hold a religious marriage ceremony that is up to them, but this is not essential to the purpose of the civil registration of a marriage.

        It's just like a birth. Parents may choose to have a religious baptism or non-religious naming ceremony, but this this is not essential. If they wish they can simply fill in the forms and file them with the Registry of Births, Deaths and Marriages.

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      • Stop_the_madness:

        16 May 2008 12:41:59pm

        A lot of weddings don't involve anything even remotely religious - no priest, no swearing before god, no pretence of religion at all.

        Marriage is a civil institution, administered by the government. The power of any minister or priest or other religous figures to marry people is given to them by that government, not the other way around!

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      • Vincent:

        16 May 2008 3:44:07pm

        I disagree with one point: that Marriage is a religious institution. I consider it to be a natural institution.

        In the Catholic Church for example, of the seven sacraments it is the only one administered by the spouses, not by the priest.

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      • genY:

        16 May 2008 5:31:31pm

        marriage has been a religious concept in the past, however the ramifications and implications of marriage now go beyond religion. There are many legal implications to marriage, and, frankly, if only actively religious people married then marriage would be dead by now. Marriage is now also a state and social beast. Which is largely why people can divorce and remarry freely.

        Further the Christian churches are divided on the issue of homosexuality, some offering to bless same sex unions and ordain openly gay clergy, and some choosing to exclude God's people who happen to be gay. In my opinion the churches that oppose gay marriage are showcasing the worst of Christianity and have missed God's message of love in favour of being judgemental and feeling surperior. This is the antithesis of Christ's message.

        Basically if YOU don't believe is same sex marriage then don't marry someone of the same sex. Leave everyone else the dignity of living their lives as they see fit.

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      • Hamish:

        16 May 2008 6:09:56pm

        Marriage is absolutely not a religious institution! What are you implying? That only religious people who wed in churches are recognised?

        And who cares if the church says you cant marry someone of the same sex? What relevance does that have for agnotics and atheists? We should all have the freedom to do as we wish with regard to same-sex, consentual marriage. Whats it to you if it happens?

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      • PaulB:

        17 May 2008 1:54:24pm

        Bertrand,

        Marriage has absolutely nothing to do with the church.

        You appear ignorant beyond belief. Our marriage laws are Acts of Parliament. Full Stop!

        Some people choose to marry in Churches for their own personal reasons or beliefs. They are not required too, you fool!

        I personally would choose a whorehouse to marry in, I am sure I would feel cleaner after the ceremony.

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  • Too_right:

    16 May 2008 10:00:28am

    Lets hope that both our politicians and the public at large come to realise that sexual orientation is a poor reason for denying people the opportunity to marry, and that they realise it soon!

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      • JayR:

        16 May 2008 3:09:33pm

        I'd almost switch it back the other way and wonder why homosexuals want to get 'married' in the first place! Its not like marriage actually means anything anymore or that heterosexual people have held it in such high regard that all the religious wowsers would have you believe it should be!!

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          • Ford:

            16 May 2008 3:15:33pm

            I think it's more to do with being allowed to visit their partner in hospital if they're terminally ill, having rights to see children they've raised together, having rights to assets they've built up together etc.

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              • Jake:

                18 May 2008 3:15:14pm

                Part of it too is certain benefits.
                If a hetero couple are married and one dies, the other can get certain benefits, like in the case of my mother on a widow's pension.
                If she happened to be in a lesbian relationship for 20 years and the same scenario occured, nothing.
                It goes beyond that of course, but that's just another point to raise here.

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  • James:

    16 May 2008 10:07:09am

    Currently if a marriage breaks down because for example the woman is unfaithful, she can take the kids, 75%of the home and then claim child support from her X. Then she mooches off her new lover as well and claims child allowance from the Government.

    Is it any wonder men try to dodge this bullet?

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      • amme:

        16 May 2008 10:50:55am

        James you are so wrong on this one! Family Law has changed to such an extent that even if that senario occurred, the courts start from the presumtion of shared care for the children.

        This presumtion of shared care STILL exists even in incidents of severe abuse toward the mother as it is deamed that it is in the best interest of the child to have equal and shared time with both parents.

        This story is about recognising gay relationships and the right of people like myself to have their love recognised. It is not about men 'dodging this bullet'.

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  • Rob:

    16 May 2008 10:58:09am

    I am sure that many will write (or may already have written by the time this is posted) that the tradition of marriage and history dictate that marriage should be only between one man and one woman. However, history is not something with which one should agree or disagree, rather it is a record of countless people pursuing their own ends, interacting with one another and their environments through time (occasionally they make breakthroughs, producing new things; theres no reason for sentient beings to be stuck on precedent). I agree with history is really a meaningless statement, rather like saying I agree with time or I agree with the way my father and grandfather and ancestors before them though about things.

    That said, history is replete with precedents for homosexual marriage. For example, Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality (John Boswell, University of Chicago Press, 1980) documents legally recognised homosexual marriage in ancient Rome extending into the Christian period, and Same-Sex Unions in Premodern Europe (John Boswell, Villard Books, 1994) discusses Church-blessed same-sex unions and even an ancient Christian same-sex nuptial liturgy.

    Male Colors: The Construction of Homosexuality in Tokugawa Japan (Gary Leupp, University of California Press, 1995) describes the brotherhood-bonds between samurai males, involving written contracts and sometimes severe punishments for infidelity, in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries. Literature on the Azande of the southern Sudan, details where for centuries warriors bonded, in all legitimacy, with boy-wives. Marjorie Topleys study of lesbian marriages in Guangdong, China into the early twentieth century and Yale law professor William Eskridges The Case for Same-Sex Marriage (1996) and other of his works, are all replete with many historical examples.

    A study of world history will really tell you that pretty much any kind of sexual behavious can become institutionalised somewhere, sometime. Polygamy remains normal and legal in many nations, as it was among Americas Mormon forebears in Utah. In Tibet, polyandry has a long history, and modern Chinese law seems powerless to prevent marriages between one woman and two or three men.

    Over the past 3,000 odd years there has, in fact, been no global marriage norm. In some societies a man and a woman, of their own free will, formed a relationship, decided to forge a life-long commitment, got the necessary permissions and ceremonial legitimacy, started having sex after that, and maintained a monogamous union thereafter until one died. Thats been very unusual though.

    Arranged marriages involving varying degree of input by the couple (usually less by the female) have been more the norm.

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      • Rob:

        16 May 2008 1:20:22pm

        [Oops, the word limit got me! Here is the rest of my post ...]

        Arranged marriages involving varying degree of input by the couple (usually less by the female) have been more the norm. Indeed, what many now claim as the tradition of marriage is a radical departure from prior history, when we started insisting on the freedom of young couples to marry without their parents consent, and to so based on love another complex and evolving historical category.

        For demographic and economic reasons (rather than articulated moral ones), monogamy has generally been more widespread than polygamy. But in more societies than not, wealthy, powerful men have enjoyed the polygamous option. That of course goes for the ancient Hebrews.

        The freedom to link yourself to another, and benefit from whatever range of privileges your political and cultural environment confer on marriage should not be arbitrarily confined to males who are attracted to females, and to females attracted to males. Even if that premise had, in fact, prevailed since the dawn of civilisation, it would be irrational. If history has any function at all, it is to induce people, merely through cumulative experience, to get more rational, and thereby alleviate the kinds of suffering they can inflict upon themselves.

        Recognition of gay marriage is a step towards recognising reality, and alleviating the oppression homophobic ignorance and hatred inevitably inflict.

        Recognition of gay marriage is just, fair, reasonable and civilised.

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      • CJW:

        16 May 2008 2:52:29pm

        So, Rob (in one post or less), should polyamorous marriages be recognised also?

        Would it not be oppressive and ignorant to force a person to only marry one other at a time?

        Wouldn't this especially be the case for a bisexual person who wants to have both a husband and wife at the same time?

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          • Ford:

            16 May 2008 3:10:35pm

            Why not?
            How does it affect you if a person wants to marry more than one person, hmmm?

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              • CJW:

                16 May 2008 3:42:34pm

                It doesn't affect me.

                It may, however, effect 'marriage,' or at least how it is perceived. If I were to marry everyone I feel attracted to (assuming they would marry me!) then surely I end up with not so much a harem of husbands and/or wives, but just a posse of friends?

                Perhaps it is oppressive, but I fear it remains true that the quality of my yeses are determined by the quantity of my noes.

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          • Rob:

            16 May 2008 3:44:46pm

            CJW, I was not proposing that polygamous of polyandrous (for that matter) be recognised, rather I was pointing out that to use claims of "tradition" or "history" to justify refusing to recognise gay relationships as a "marriage" was wrong.

            Rather the debate should be based on merit, fairness, justice and equal rights.

            On a personal note I have no interest in "marriage", but that does not mean I reject the notion for everyone else; be they heterosexual or homosexual.

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          • Simon:

            17 May 2008 10:51:30pm

            Bisexuality is being attracted to both genders, not the want of living in a polygamous relationship. It's not about "collecting the whole set".

            What's to say a bisexual person cannot show the same fidelity as that of a heterosexual or homosexual person? I think you'll find betrayal is betrayal in any relationship and the defence of "but you know I'm bisexual" is as sound as "I was drunk."

            The moment people start the whole "well, if we allow gay marriage then we may as well allow polygamy, incest, beastiality etc." is when the argument descends into stupidity. I know you weren't suggesting the latter two but this is where the argument always goes.

            People start by discrediting the idea of gay marriage with the whole "well, if people want equality we can't just stop at gay marriage" argument to come to the conclusion of "yeah, best not change anything."

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  • David Keig:

    16 May 2008 11:33:42am

    A few people have made the point that 'marriage is a religious institution'.

    It is not and has not been for many years since a civil marriages were recognised.

    The State has no right or, indeed, responsibility to enter into the private lives of individuals and the choices that they make within the law.

    For same sex marriages to be treated any differently from other marriages or unions is rank hypocrisy and smacks of the utter nonsense of the dreaded 'religious right'.

    Shame on all you narrow minded, short sighted, sanctimonious bigots who even fight against women becoming priests and ministers!

    i somehow know where Jesus would be in this debate.


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      • JayR:

        16 May 2008 3:12:02pm

        No, actually the 'institution' of marriage was around long before the abrahamic religions (judaism, christianity and islam) were even thought of!

        Even more reason why religion shouldnt claim marriage as its own or even 'holy'

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  • Peter:

    16 May 2008 12:00:31pm

    Whatever homosexuals want to do in the privacy of their own homes is none of my business

    This country has more important problems to solve without wasting resources on this kind of thing

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      • Ford:

        16 May 2008 12:30:19pm

        Oh I agree.
        We also have more important things to do than deal with heterosexual marriage, childcare, family tax benefit, schools etc.
        If you're concerned about the Government wasting time on human rights, best y'all haul ass to Iran and you wont need to be bothered by such trivial matters anymore.
        As they said on the West Wing "Ban marriage...for everyone" let the Churches deal with what is, apparently, a religious matter.

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          • Karlis:

            16 May 2008 3:02:17pm

            I stopped watching West Wing because I felt completely depressed sitting in front of a fantasy world and not having their best ideas in real life (a sort of intellectual masturbation).

            However, thank God (or the marriage celebrant) you can stomach its drivel, Ford, because that's a bloody great perspective to tell everyone.

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      • amme:

        16 May 2008 12:53:24pm

        "Whatever homosexuals do in the privacy of their own home is none of my business"

        I absolutely agee with you, it is none of your business but human rights is EVERYONES business.

        We contribute to all of the systems governed by society including tax, home purchase, families etc but we do not have equal legal rights to many of the things hetro's take for granted.

        You do not have to be gay or black or Aboriginal or disabled etc to recognise that people in our society are discriminated against unjustly and you do not have to identify as or with any of those things to formulate a view that they are discriminatory.

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  • Bryce:

    16 May 2008 12:20:19pm

    Why not make a compromise? It is obvious that the particular word of marriage does offend some people, why not call it something else - like the civil union?

    Look at all the celebrities who have 2, 3 and even 4 marriages - yet some people in our society are prevented from having even one.

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      • JayR:

        16 May 2008 3:14:24pm

        One can only guess its a case of wanting what everyone else can get, regardless of how useless it is anyway - and then I guess you'll get divorce soon enough too! :)

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      • Ford:

        16 May 2008 3:30:18pm

        Deal.
        If the State will compromise on my taxes, since I'm essentially getting a limited version of what the State offers, I'm more than happy to compromose on human rights.
        And after all, compromising on human rights for minorities is what this country does best, isn't it?

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  • angela :

    16 May 2008 3:33:07pm

    There was a time when I though Rodney Groomes' marriage campaign a pointless irrelevancy on the path to improving human rights for lesbians and gays, and as a feminist, hardly a cheerleader for partiarchial matrimony.

    I now realise it is in fact a powerful tool to move the debate about the validity of our relationships. I have spoken with many conservative heterosexuals who place considerable store on the institution of marriage (d'oh) and I realise that they aren't really couching their objections in religious terms - but societal acceptance. This is something my conservative G&L friends failed to get across to me. As hard as I find it to believe - the mere act of government sanction will force rightwingers to respect a married couple evenif they are ( horrors) same sex!!
    That's why I am now an enthusiastic same sex marriage suppporter - not that I actually will get married - I have no urge for respectability!

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  • Beren:

    16 May 2008 3:43:31pm

    A well written and poignant article that draws very real parallels. Ironically in the past it was the same brand of socia-religious attitudes to race that are being touted in todays arguments against freedom and equality for same-sex couples.

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  • alan:

    16 May 2008 5:46:27pm

    Marriage by any definition is a pseudo christian ethic and as such is fast becoming irrelevant in today's society.

    To all of those Anglo Saxon or roman catholic traditionalists get with the times marriage is your concept of what is right and real. To the new aged christians who attend hillsong or any other new aged christian ethos base church get a life, god and his son is just another set of rules that enable you to be controlled. A great example of what you are contributing to is Scientology. It is about the rich and famous. Every day punters are not welcome because you are unable to contribute the level of wealth the require.

    The issues for all of us are about living in a world where many survive unnessessarily and too many of you place your faith in religion and right wing politics to make your world OK!

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  • Gen Y:

    16 May 2008 7:54:26pm

    Hay whats wrong with just calling it a civil union; giving same sex couples all the same legal rights that men & women get through marriage. I dont think its right that people that love each other and build lifes together should have no rights when for example their partner dies (hopefully later in life) they have no say because in the eyes of the law their next of kin have legal power over their assets. But i personally dont think it should be clasified as marriage, that to me can only be between a man and a woman. Whats the issue here, legal rights or social acceptance? If its about legal rights then no one should complain at calling it a civil union.

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      • Beren:

        17 May 2008 7:28:15am

        Okay Gen Y,

        We will call our legally sanctioned and fully recognised, ceremonially formed relationships civil unions if you will.

        To all the heterosexuals who take this weak stance of saying you can have marriage as long as you call it something else. How would you feel if suddenly you were told you could not refer to your legally sanctioned and fully recognised, ceremonially formed relationship as a marriage anymore?

        I dare suggest the vast majority who take this angle would be aghast and outraged.

        Dont you people understand?!? Equality means NOT having a separate system for one group of people. It means including everyone under the same system with equal unqualified access. Sepratisim and Apartheid for homosexuals, frak me people it's about having the same rights, get your heads around the idea. It really insnt that hard, if the poms can sort it out why cant we aussies? Are we really so bloody colonial as they say we are?




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          • Gen Y:

            17 May 2008 9:34:57am

            Beren

            I can understand what you are saying but as i see and after a quick search online says marriage is:

            1. the social institution under which a man and woman establish their decision to live as husband and wife by legal commitments, religious ceremonies, etc.

            2. the legal or religious ceremony that formalizes the decision of a man and woman to live as husband and wife, including the accompanying social festivities: to officiate at a marriage.

            3. a relationship in which two people have pledged themselves to each other in the manner of a husband and wife, without legal sanction

            Listion i am not taken a week stance buy suggesting an alternative, or in anyway encouraging segragation but at the same time i cant agree with you. This argument could and will continue, everyone has their views but i would at least like to see a step forward even if its not completly to your liking.

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              • Beren:

                18 May 2008 2:20:33pm

                You miss the point completely m8. Equality is Equality, anything less than Equality is Inequality.

                Oh and respectfully, a quick search online doesn't define anything. Please spare me the - if it is written so, it must be so rhetoric -

                Marriage has already been redefined in modern terms in free nations that seek to recognize true equality as opposed to qualified conditional equality you are proposing.

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      • PaulB:

        17 May 2008 1:41:29pm

        Gen Y,

        You are half way there! You just need to take the next step in reasoning this out.

        You say, ".... but i personally dont think it should be clasified as marriage, that to me can only be between a man and a woman....."

        Thats the problem with this debate. People trying to apply their moral code on everybody else. Who cares what you think should not be allowed to be defined as marriage? It is the 2 people i