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Judgement, truth and commonsense

By Bruce Haigh

Posted July 29, 2008 08:49:00
Updated July 29, 2008 09:08:00

Australian Special Forces task group soldiers in Afghanistan.

The war in Afghanistan is not winnable by military means. (Reuters: Australian Defence Force)

Appointing Joel Fitzgibbon as Minister for Defence was not one of Kevin Rudd's better decisions. Fitzgibbon's choice of personal staff has been found to be wanting but more importantly the job is too big for Fitzgibbon.

On a recent visit to Washington, Fitzgibbon said he was in two minds about the war in Afghanistan. On some days, he confessed, the war seemed unwinnable on other days he was more optimistic. Flip flop, such a display of tough mindedness should send shivers up the spine of parents who have children in the ADF.

The war is not winnable by military means. While Australia has troops on the ground in Afghanistan it should use that leverage to talk to the Taliban in Pakistan and their backers to ascertain what it is they want. Is this a religious crusade or is it a Pathan battle for power with both tribal and broader nationalistic overtones? Australia should attempt to determine how much of the growing call to arms has been fuelled by the US and NATO presence in Pathan tribal lands in Afghanistan. Remember the Russians and the British before them.

Regional diplomacy

Fitzgibbon told the media in Washington he was more than happy for the Americans to talk to the Pakistan government about curtailing support for and curbing the activities of the Taliban. Australia should be conducting its own diplomacy. This is not the Vietnam war. We have a diplomatic service and we should be using it. We need to talk to the government of Pakistan, but more importantly we need to talk to the Taliban. It is them we are fighting and risking the lives of young Australians.

Fitzgibbon's deferral to the US amounted to an abrogation of Australian sovereignty. It was craven and humiliating and took this country back 40 years.

With over 1,000 troops on the ground in Afghanistan, Fitzgibbon and the Foreign Minister, Stephen Smith, should have argued to Kevin Rudd that instead of spending $5 million establishing an embassy in the Vatican, with running costs of $3 million a year, Australia should have put those resources into established regional posts particularly Afghanistan, Pakistan and India. The chances are the first they knew of the decision was after it was announced.

Of all people Rudd should be aware of the need to properly staff embassies, particularly in our region, with people who have had appropriate training, including language training. To open an embassy in the Vatican which will return little in the way of advancing our interests, either politically or in terms of trade, seems the height of indulgence from a practicing Catholic. All the more so when six months ago Rudd forced Foreign Affairs to slash its budget by $57 million.

Stephen Smith has been overshadowed by Rudd's forays into foreign relations, no wonder he was so pleased to secure his very own visit to his home state of US Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice.

Unhealthy secrecy

Fitzgibbon has to know that the Australian public are sick of being lied to by the ADF. We read of a tragically delayed medivac by US helicopter in Afghanistan, not from an ADF press release but by a leaked email from a Dutch military doctor. There has never been such secrecy surrounding an Australian military involvement as there has been in Afghanistan. Some of it is necessary, most is not.

At the announcement of the death of SAS Trooper McCarthy in Afghanistan, the chief of the Defence Force, Air Vice Marshall Angus Houston, said the soldier was evacuated immediately. That raises a worrying dilemma, either Houston knew the truth and covered up or he was not advised by those on the ground in Afghanistan. The truth rests with one or other. Houston must come clean. Under the circumstances it is hard to have confidence in him.

This degree of secrecy is unhealthy. It leads all too readily to opting for the cover-up when disclosure should be the way to go. Australia is after all a democracy. If the ADF wants to fill the many boots now vacant both they and their Minister must take the Australian public much more into their confidence. If they are prepared to conduct military operations which might have adverse diplomatic consequences they should factor in the cost of disclosure.

Joel Fitzgibbon needs to get a grip on himself and his department or better still, before decisions are made in response to the soon to be released Defence white paper, he should be replaced by Greg Combet.

Bruce Haigh is a political commentator, retired diplomat and former soldier.

Tags: defence-and-national-security, defence-forces, security-alliances, federal-government, foreign-affairs, unrest-conflict-and-war, afghanistan, australia

Comments (57)

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  • dragon:

    29 Jul 2008 9:24:56am

    Just another example of the K Rudd government's hap hazardly throwing together a cabinet full of inexperienced people. Garrett, Smith, Roxon and Fitzgibbon are front runners to be replaced before the next election if Labor are serious about a second term.

    Although in defence of some of the issues directed at Fitzgibbon, there will always by secrets held by the defence forces of any nation, of which the leader of the country will not even be privy to.

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      • Greg h:

        29 Jul 2008 11:55:19am

        Agreed, the shocking absence of talent in Rudd's front bench is very evident. You have to add Wayne Swann, Chris Evans to that list, people who have no experience in anything apart from academics.

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          • Ben:

            29 Jul 2008 2:20:32pm

            Looking at the current opposition I would say the Rudd government look like the A team at the moment.

            Let's not forget that the current opposition leader made an awful defence minister (many of his portfolio decisions such as the super hornets are a disgrace when there are much newer and better aircraft currently available). No difference to Howard's stint as treasurer (22% interest rates).

            Are you following my point yet, that any incoming government that has been out of power for long periods of time will look inexperienced because they technically are. Give them a chance and they may actually surprise you (and if they don't I expect the party will eventually replace them).

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      • iCitizen:

        29 Jul 2008 7:10:07pm

        I think K-Rudd is doing a fantabulous job considering the mess he was left with the previous Government, as for Bruce Haigh, dont blame the soldiers, thats defeatest, and dont blame the Howard Government, and ofcourse never blame George W, so blame K-Rudd, call yourself a ex-soldier, no substance more like, LOMF!

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  • Jack:

    29 Jul 2008 9:45:21am

    Well, Rudd the catholic establishes a Vatican Embassy at a cost of some AU$8,000,000 for the first year. How surprising, the early post-election photos of Rudd showed him grinning like he'ld won the lottery, and it looks like he has.

    Too bad for our troops in Afghanistan...

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      • derek409:

        29 Jul 2008 11:38:01am

        What on earth has the setting up of "a Vatican Embassy" got to do with this story or about our troops in Afghanistan. I would imagine most members of the ADF (of which I was one) would rather Smith as the Minister than Nelson, who stumbled from one stuff up to another. You guys certainly can turn issues around to suit your political point of view !

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          • Greg h:

            29 Jul 2008 12:11:33pm

            Most members of ADF prefer the coalition over Labor.

            It is irrelevant who is defence minister.

            Under Labor it is more funding cuts, equipment shortages, lack of morale due to political decisions (like running away from Iraq), if you look at defence related voting booths around the nation it would overwhelmingly for the Coalition.

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              • jeffbaby:

                29 Jul 2008 1:01:38pm

                A comment about the talent on Rudd's front bench is a bit rich coming from a Lib. Could anyone really call Brendan Nelson a defence minister of any calibre? One was often staggered by his comments about defence situations - such as the time he either spilled the beans on Howard or got it wrong completely when he "admitted" the reason Australia was in Iraq was about protecting the West's oil.

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              • Greg h:

                29 Jul 2008 1:59:11pm

                Nelson atleast has some real world experience. He is a a doctor,

                What exact real world experience does Wayne Swann, or Fitzgibbon or Evans have?

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              • Karlis:

                29 Jul 2008 4:49:09pm

                Greg h, so being an academic in economics makes Swan unqualified to be treasurer, but being a medical doctor makes Nelson qualified to be defence minister?

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              • Sebastian:

                29 Jul 2008 6:54:35pm

                Must be the same real world experience that made the lousy decision on going to war, run the economy on a spend till you drop (consumption not infrastructure), inflating the price of everything so the new government has to wait for prices to drop before investing heavily within the economy. Oh! and lets not forget not doing anything about the economy's dependency on fuel (i.e. seeing it as a weakness). Are you so busy playing politics that you cannot see past it to a better deal for the people and the nation.

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              • Peter O:

                30 Jul 2008 1:00:11am

                Let's be kind, and perhaps he is fair dinkum

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              • Happy dude:

                29 Jul 2008 2:02:38pm

                By what standards do "most members of the ADF prefer the coalition"?
                Unsubstantiated claims such as this hardly contribute to healthy debate.

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              • Greg h:

                29 Jul 2008 3:09:25pm

                The evidence is the empirical data that is available from voting booths near defence areas, where defence personnel and their families reside.

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              • Somewhat Perplexed:

                30 Jul 2008 12:48:44am

                I do believe there is preference for the Liberal side of politics within the ADF.

                Those figures may need to be looked in the light of people who work for the Department of Defence (not being serving members of the Defence Force) also often live in defence areas. Serving ADF members also vote absentee so that can muck it up a bit.

                Historically, Liberal spend more on defence then Labor. That is appealling to some, perhaps most.

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              • Robert2:

                29 Jul 2008 5:30:14pm

                Happy old chap, it is by the unwritten and unspoken belief by the "defenders of the indefencable" that volunteers into our armed forces are automatically catagorised and looked upon as obsequious forelock tugging monarchists. Therefore willing subjects to the propaganda of the right wing carreerists.

                It is an age old thing, I believe Churchill, from what I have read, did not think the Australian government during WW2 was representative of the people, the culture continues

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              • Peter:

                29 Jul 2008 7:49:40pm

                The standard of having adequate funding & resources for the job that the ADF is charged with carrying out for one.

                Conflicts today are 'come as you are' conflicts. There is none of this 5-10 year warning rubbish that the ALP and co. have clung to for many years. The nature of the world today means that when something happens it happens quickly and the response also needs to be rapid & appropriate. Not manning, equipping & training the ADF to deal with the gambit of challenges they may be called upon to deal with is negligence.

                Are their bad eggs in the ADF leadership? Absolutely, I can even name quite a few. The problem is that with a green Defence portfolio team, the opportunity exists for those who are in uniform that have forgotten that they are there to serve the public and their soldiers, to further their own interests.

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              • John Michaels:

                29 Jul 2008 6:00:32pm

                The Coalition made enough cuts of their own when they came into power. Halving the defence budget, sacking 35,000 defence personnel, outsourcing traditional defence jobs and the list goes on. Budget cuts come from both sides when they gain power so they can cut previous Government programs that both sides disagree with the other about.

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          • Neal:

            29 Jul 2008 12:17:37pm

            Did you even read the article? The criticism was that the expense of setting up an emabassy at the Vatican plus continued yearly running costs were a waste of money which could be better used setting up regional posts in Pakistan and Afghanistan to create a dialogue between the warring parties. That is how it would directly effect our troops in Afgahnistan derek.

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              • Derek409:

                29 Jul 2008 12:33:41pm

                I did read the article and the fact that the expenses incurred with the Vatican Embassy is a completely separate issue. The Defence budget is just that. The Foreign Affairs budget is just that also. How come the previous Liberal Government didn't throw that extra cash to support the troops in afghanistan.
                PS I have a mate serving in Afghanistan and he reckons their doing OK (as far as equipment, resources, go)

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              • Neal:

                29 Jul 2008 1:06:53pm

                Yes because our involvement in Afghanistan has nothing to do with Foreign Affairs whatsoever...

                Or we could back even further and look at Von Clausewitz and his famour maxim that war is an extension of politics by other means, I dare say how our Foreign Affairs budget is spent greatly effects where and when and how our Defence Force are required.

                And the Coalition Government did provide significantly more funding to Defence, remember they weren't busy cutting and running on another theatre at the time, so their spending patterns were restricted on that basis as well.

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              • Trevor:

                29 Jul 2008 1:12:46pm

                Couldn't agree more. The two budgets are entirely separate.

                This is one of those articles where I could tell what the author's credentials would be before I got anywhere near the end. It pretty well screamed 'retired defence person who thinks he'd do a better job of running things'. Quality journalism, it is not.

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              • Jack:

                29 Jul 2008 2:30:02pm

                If the USSR couldn't deal with it, and it's a lot closer geographically to them than the USA or Australia, what hope do we have?

                The Vatican money would be better spent trying to arrive at negotiated solutions in Afghanistan.

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              • Hugh Jampton:

                29 Jul 2008 4:46:03pm

                The USSR had difficulty with Afghanistan because the USA was always backing the other side - including the Taliban. The Afghans have been pawns in the geopolitical aspirations of these two powers since (at least) the end of WW2. I admire the effort our soldiers are putting in - they are trying to help fix up over 50 years of political and military interference. We should be sending the bills to the Yanks and the Russians

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              • Damon:

                29 Jul 2008 2:39:15pm

                Your claim that the budget for diplomatic resources in and around Afganistan should be considered separately from the defence budget only goes to reinforce the point that the author of the original article is making.

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      • jeffbaby:

        29 Jul 2008 12:58:50pm

        I think Rudd's an Anglican.

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          • Trevor:

            29 Jul 2008 1:24:57pm

            Apparently he's a bit of both. Raised a Catholic, but more recently attended Anglican churches.

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      • Terry:

        29 Jul 2008 4:43:09pm

        I think you will find that Kevin Rudd is not a Catholic, but a Christian. A serious discussion about ministerial competence is neither enhanced or informed by religious hatred, and there seems to be no relevance to this comment apart from polemic.

        In my view, getting experience as a Defence Minister is a very challenging task - the uniform branch of the Armed Forces operates and maintains very complicated equipment in necessarily complex force structures, with allies and partners. The civilian branch provides support and expertise in sustaining that force. The intelligence services provide extraordinary amounts of continuous information feeds.

        Great Defence Ministers like Kim Beazley take years to be respected by both the media and the Force. Bruce, give the guy a break. Remember your own days as a junior subaltern?

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          • Nuts:

            30 Jul 2008 1:08:18am

            Hold up! What did you say? Beazley was a "Great Defence Minister"? I was going to stay out of this debate until I saw this wild claim

            We are talking about the same minister that cut defence spending (read: ADF jobs) by 55% while minister. The same minister that outsourced so much of the technical support roles that now there are ghost towns around the country (check out Amberley next to Ipswich, QLD on Google earth), and the same defence minister that is hated by the defence force personnel for his hack and grind job on the workplace health and safety measures of the service, which is responsible for the current health issues our retirees are now having (see further about the F-111 deseal problem) and who are now reliant on the Vet Affairs bungling of their claims?

            I'd like to know why you think he was a "Great Defence Minister" because the anectodal evidence I'm aware of (I'm a RAAF brat from the late 80s) speaks volumes against it, while the empirical evidence can't possibly support your claim.

            He may have been a great something (perhaps opposition leader - jury's out on that), but definitely not a Great Defence Minister.

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  • PShaw:

    29 Jul 2008 9:53:16am

    It seems to me that all Fitzgibbon is guilty of is being honest -- perhaps that is what the "retired diplomat" author cannot stomach. As for the US speaking with Pakistan etc -- well it is the Americans' 'war', any diplomatic agreement reached would need their approval, and in any event they would agree to nothing that they did not broker.

    Remind me why we are there?

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  • Somewhat Perplexed:

    29 Jul 2008 10:26:22am

    I was once in the ADF and party to an incident in peacetime.

    I can say the ADF lie. I can also say they send out commanding officers to rip into the troups who tell the truth which opposes the ADF official line.
    So lying about Afganistan is not a new thing. They have a long and proud history of not telling the truth.

    Then there is Fitzgibbon. Surely you are not suggesting he is doing an inferior job to Nelson.

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  • Robert2:

    29 Jul 2008 10:31:40am

    "Unhealthy Secrecy," I very much doubt if this is some kind of new phenonenom to the ADF.

    With the ongoing policy of shoe horned, set aside training, (not persons interested in Australias long term welfare and interests,) but dedicated disciples to dysfunctionalism and the old world monarchy, how consistant does the negative flow of information have to be before it is recognised as a culture?

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  • Treadlightly:

    29 Jul 2008 10:42:59am

    This approach to Afghanistan would be what George Bush calls 'negotiating with terrorists'. Asking the Taliban 'what they want' is a very good idea, and probably exactly what will happen when Obama comes to power, but I think the bigger question is 'what did the Republicans want' when they sought to remove the Taliban in the first place.

    US bases in Saudi Arabia are being shut down and moved out. America is no longer welcome in the region except in Turkey and Israel, and all OPEC countries are now moving to reject the US dollar in return for oil.

    America's unsustainable energy consumption is the whole concern, and the war is an expense we should not be paying for.
    An even bigger concern is the 500million dollars we are about to invest in 'clean coal'.

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  • Az:

    29 Jul 2008 10:50:01am

    Australia's mercenaries are in Afghanistan, paying off the debt of allegiance to the USA.

    It's appalling watching your own countries resources (and young lives) being pissed away on an endeavour that has nothing to do with defence.

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      • Zac:

        29 Jul 2008 2:06:55pm

        They're soldiers - not mercenaries. You would do well to learn the difference.

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      • Pete:

        29 Jul 2008 2:27:39pm

        I'd like to see you walk up to a returning Australian soldier and look in his/her face and tell them they are mercenaries. Or would your conviction and courage desert you?

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      • Cynet:

        29 Jul 2008 5:58:53pm

        A debt of allegiance to the USA infers mutual patriotism and nationalism which is simply not to be confused with bought military professionals. However, while military service is voluntary and salaries are generously paid then to a degree 'mercenary' is not an entirely innaccurate title. It's a semantic argument, but objective never-the-less.

        On the face of it, the military in Afganistan are there to get even on 9/11. The PR exercise re-inforces our superiority to the world and we secure resources, albiet in a relatively non-competitive arrangement. We're involved because our citizens also died in the US attacks. The operation on Afgan soil is definitely questionable in terms of relationships to the culture of the locals and security of our culture. The threat has not been efficiently eliminated, as it should have been, since wars are not being fought like ever before. Indeed, our allies may not even have similar interests as our own participation in Afganistan. Take Iraq and the failure by the USA on each of their objectives except getting Saddam. Another gross war crime that our leaders authorised us to join.

        The Afganistan operation only ever warranted a most exact revenge followed by co-operation. The heavy-handiness demonstrated by the super-power is regretable and shamely.

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  • Karlis:

    29 Jul 2008 11:23:12am

    So because Fitzgibbon didn't ask for the 8million being spent on the Vatican to instead go to defence he should be sacked?? What a strange "comment"(ator) to make, Bruce. Why not argue for Tony Abbot's 7million saving in the IVF program to be redirected to defence?

    It seems Fitzgibbon's only mistake was to talk while still in the process of understanding the Afghanistan situation. How dare he!

    And I wonder why we should repeat the same diplomacy with Pakistan that the US is doing when we're allies in the region and striving for the one goal? Isn't that a decision for the diplotmats and politicians? Seems like there's not a huge problem here.


    Sick of not having real power? Become a commentator! At the very least diatribes like this can be confused as powerful.

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      • Ford:

        29 Jul 2008 1:28:38pm

        "It seems Fitzgibbon's only mistake was to talk while still in the process of understanding the Afghanistan situation. How dare he!"
        Precisely. It's because Joel does understand the situation in Afghanistan that he veers between hope and fear...the situation is dynamic and it's a foolish man (I'm looking at you Haigh) that pretends that the final call has already been made.
        I think all that time in the Dipomatic Corp has Haigh believing his own spin.

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  • Ford:

    29 Jul 2008 11:24:35am

    "On some days, he confessed, the war seemed unwinnable on other days he was more optimistic"
    Yes, that's called 'realism' as opposed to the sort of "Mission Accomplished" spin we see from less honest politicians.
    It's a mark of wisdom to admit what you don't know.
    Clearly, Mr Haigh knows everything.

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      • Spank:

        29 Jul 2008 1:53:37pm

        So our trusty prime minister put some one into one of our most important ministries who had no idea about one of the biggest issues.

        Maybe thats why he took one of his mates along. Ford, i think you have pretty much sown up the argument that the current front bench are unaware of what needs to happen to run a country.

        The training wheels are off and they've got the speed wobbles

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          • Ford:

            29 Jul 2008 2:34:02pm

            I'm curious as to what Australian politicians would understand the situation in Afghanistan? Perhaps some of them are concealing an Afghani heritage?
            Seems to me, if the Coalition had a better understanding of the situation, we wouldn't be seeing the problems we're seeing in Iraq and Afghanistan, hmmm?
            The only difference between Joel and his predecessor, is that Joel admits the situation is dynamic and swings between good and bad, Nelson didn't know (or care) what was happening.
            Securing the oil supply Nelson? Gosh, that hasn't really worked out now, has it?
            Joel has a far better understanding of the situation than you appear to, perhaps you should consider applying for the Leadership of the Opposition, I hear there's a vacancy coming up soon.

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              • Spank:

                29 Jul 2008 2:57:29pm

                Come on Ford,

                You said yourself he is admitting to the fact he doesn't know what's going on. He has also showed an incredible lack of good judgement by taking one of his mates along. It's his job to understand, he gets paid a motza to understand.

                On one hand you attack for lack of knowledge and then on the other you use it as a defence.....you can't have it both ways.


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              • alan:

                29 Jul 2008 6:01:58pm

                Ford I have to agree but isn't the real problem for any political process that elects a government and then the ministers come from the rank and file. How can anyone in their right mind come to terms with the issues of this level of governing in such a short time.

                Not being one of little johny's I do have to admit that he would have had more knowledge about these issues. he may have not been smart enough to use it properly but ..... .

                I sometimes think that perhaps the Ministers should be chosen in a similar way to the tin tanks but with a more tightened leash being applied to ensure that the corruption and nepotism is reduced.

                This would also perhaps some trickle down effect into the PS and ADF that would allow knowledgeable people to make informed recommendations so that better decisions could be made. The government governs, the executive manages and the parliament supervisors and audits.

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  • Pete:

    29 Jul 2008 11:38:08am

    "ask the Taliban what they want?"

    If only we would have asked Hitler what he wanted, back in the 30s..everything would have been peachy. Oh hang on we did, and Czechoslovakia was handed on a silver plate. The rest is history.

    Maybe if we let the Taliban only be as half as brutal to the people of Afghanistan, we can sleep better at nights. I mean getting acid thrown on your face for not weaing the veil, maybe thats just an acceptable cultural practise?

    Appeasement is appeasement, no matter how you spin it.

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  • AATTV 39:

    29 Jul 2008 12:41:55pm

    There is nothing wrong with minister Joel Fitzgibbon's appointment to the Defence portfolio.
    At least he is attempting to unravel the RAAF purchase of vital fighter/bomber aircraft which is more I can say about the past Government minister.
    He has even considered Russian super planes as a genuine replacement for our aging F-111 and super dooper F-18's. 1 third the cost, 4 times as good as any Yankee aircraft that is yet to fly!
    Countries surrounding us are all flying Sukhoi aircraft that out perform any Yankee aircraft. But the truth is we are locked into an expensive purchase from the Yanks, just to keep face. How rediculous is that?

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      • PaulB:

        29 Jul 2008 1:45:32pm

        AATTV 39,

        Joel Fitzgibbon has not seriously considered the Sukhoi series as replacements for the Hornets, except in your own mind.

        There is simply no comparison with current US fighter aircraft, including the Super Hornets. The only benefit we would derive from buying SU-27's or its variants is that they are cheap, damn cheap. And you get what you pay for. Avionics, weapons systems, maintenance & upgrades put the Sukhoi's on par with a 1st generation 1970's F-15 Eagle.

        No thanks!

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          • Ben:

            29 Jul 2008 2:43:35pm

            Shame the US won't release the F22 Raptor a much superior aircraft to the ageing F18 Super Hornets.

            The F25 Joint Strike Fighter just can't come soon enough for the RAAF. This aircraft is superior to any existing aircraft (including the Eurofighter Typhoon). But you have to wonder about the politics surrounding these decisions, if we did just go for an aircraft such as the Eurofighter Typhoon we wouldn't have to use stop gap measures such as the ageing F18 Super Hornets (or if the US government just allowed Australia to buy the F22, funny I thought we were a close ally).

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  • bill:

    29 Jul 2008 1:12:52pm

    Add Peter Garrett to the list of no talent in the KRUDD team.
    What has done since the election, nothing.

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  • ram:

    29 Jul 2008 1:35:53pm

    If the defense minister want to get some experience back into the ADF the first thing he can do is re-hire the Australians John Howard sacked (fired) when he gave all the defense contracts to foreign arms dealers and mercs.

    And what is Australia doing in Afghanistan except lining the pockets of foreign arms dealers and mercs?

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  • Pete:

    29 Jul 2008 3:08:48pm

    I don't think negotiating with the Taliban is an option and I doubt it would even be possible. The writter assumes that they are an organized cohesive and united force and I don't believe that is the case. Many of the so called "Taliban" are in fact groups acting under various war-lords mostly out of self interest. The remainder are religous fanatics and zeolots. Good luck negotiating with that lot!

    The writter's call for greater honesty from the ADF however is very worthy. Whilst I am very proud of our armed forces, the way it manages information is negligent at best and down right lying at worst.

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  • rachel:

    29 Jul 2008 3:22:05pm

    What we are seeing from this government, via comments from
    the Defence minister is the kind of openness and transparency in
    the process as opposed to the black hole of commentary in the Howard govt. Labor is not gagging its ministers to anywhere near the same extent as the previous administration. The minister is being candid, honest and open about his processes, thought
    and political. What we got from the previous minister(s) was
    an approach that basically asserted that the public are not interested in the process of government and "trust me" was the "relaxed and
    comfortable" approach to commentary ie the public only got canned
    responses from the minister, not the facts. What we see in Labor
    is a more open and candid style, warts and all. This is both a strength and weakness in Labor's style as it allows for the media and opposition to misreport and attack where it is actually not warranted.

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  • sinekal :

    29 Jul 2008 3:52:08pm

    Judgement.. Andrew Wilkie, Rod Barton and Lance Collins showed that when they disagreed with the "official" ONA, ADF and Howard Government positions on Iraq, Afghanistan and East Timor.

    Truth.. well history shows us the same guys told the truth. No WMD's, lies from allies selling us tanks, planes, bombs and rockets to fight their war, atrocities in East Timor, tortue of suspected terrorists.

    Commonsense.. the only missing part of the equation because those three guys should be leading ASIO, ONA UN and any other organisation that prides itself on integrity and a job well done. In fact anywhere the truth is more important than the spin.

    What a tragedy our repected military forces do such a great job of behalf of the people who orchestrated the downfall of these three. They should be the heroes but the truth denied them. How many others share the view that those who perpetuated the lies are all still employed and probably promoted.

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  • Bob:

    29 Jul 2008 5:56:13pm

    Are we really going to show the world such a vote of no confidence in our defence forces and the leader of the nations military policy. Is that wise? There are unknown elements even within this country I suspect, that would find this information invaluable. I trust that those who are responsible for the safeguarding of military intelligence, would find this situation a little alarming. I dont believe myself to be an overly cautious military strategist by any means, however, I dont think this kind of negative rhetoric is conjusive to good military morale, at the very least.

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  • CLF:

    29 Jul 2008 7:15:21pm

    Yes. Defence have secrets that's nothing new but has anyone thought that they often have a reason for this?

    You know, something along the lines of security for our forces in regions such as Afghanistan? If they were to publicise every move to keep the Australian public informed and happy that would also keep the "enemy" informed and more than happy.

    I'm not saying the fact that we are there is right or wrong so please don't jump on me for that. The point I'm making is that there are reasons we don't get the whole story and most of those involve security and not the conspiracy theories that get sprouted every time an incident is actually reported.

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  • kris martin:

    29 Jul 2008 9:30:20pm

    Well done Bruce!

    Consider that, as an ageing ex-hippy still radical/crazy after all these years and still very lefty, this is hard for me to offer, but how can one logically dispute your factual and well-reasoned opinion, especially with your background. The war is unwinnable, but we are there, and common sense and intelligent forward thinking will enable us to eventually depart with our helds held high, and with pride for a job well-done, in the old Aussie tradition.

    It should be obvious to a dead fish in a box that military engagement must be balanced with a highly visible and practical level of social/community engagement such that it will leave permanent benefits for the local population, and instil the respect for Oz that has been so well-earned through hard work in the past sixty years.

    Cheers, and looking forward to some more common-sense.

    Kris Martin
    Albany WA

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  • stirling votor:

    29 Jul 2008 11:40:46pm

    It is rather ironic that people like this critisise the Rudd government - we are in these invidious positions thanks to 10 years of Howard. Rudd is supposed to turn things around in 10 minutes.
    And as for being a Doctor giving Brendon Nelson experience - as a health worker I have consistently with my colleagues rated many Drs as being totally out for number 1.

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