Banned: the absurdity of Australia's game rating regime
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Ask an average Australian about censorship and chances are they'll tell you it's a bad thing.
And yet when it comes to video games, we have one of the toughest regimes in the world in terms of dictating exactly what is available to our adult population. On one hand Australia is an oasis of game development, with a thriving, highly skilled industry generating hundreds of millions of dollars of valuable export revenue. On the other hand Australia's lack of an R18+ classification means that some of the world's most important video games are effectively banned from appearing down under at all.
This unfortunate paradox is centred on the horrifically outdated view that games are just for kids. The reality is that video games are an evolving entertainment medium of truly bewildering variety, that covers at least as many ages and tastes as traditional entertainment like movies, books and television. It is a great shame that some among our lawmakers have such a narrow view of the work carried out by the 2000 people employed in and around the video game industry in Australia.
The most recent game to be refused classification in Australia illustrates just how absurd the situation has become. Fallout 3 is a highly anticipated instalment in a series that began 10 years ago. Many adult gamers were eagerly awaiting the title's release, only to be thwarted by our archaic classification system. The farcical discussion of this issue on ABC television's recent Q&A program shows how little effort some policy makers have made to understand the current system, let alone get across the arguments for reform.
Let's take a look at the Fallout example specifically. Anyone who has played a video game will probably understand the concept of picking up a 'health pack' thereby enabling you to carry on in the game. In Fallout 3, set as it is in a post-apocalyptic world, this act takes the form of an injection. This depiction is in keeping with the artistic setting and expectations of the adult audience. As a game developer I respect the view that the injections in Fallout 3 might constitute an 'adult concept'. What I cannot respect is the implied assertion that I should be not be able to make or play games that incorporate such concepts. This is a massive violation of my creative and artistic rights, and of my basic rights and freedoms as an adult living in a country like Australia.
If the publishers of Fallout 3 want to release their game in Australia, it will need to be reworked just for the Australian market. Because of the small size of our market, this is usually not worth the expense. So not only are Australian gamers being deprived of several titles per year, they are literally being pushed towards piracy, which hurts every part of our industry.
The goals of the Australian National Classification Code bear repeating for these purposes:
Classification decisions are to give effect, as far as possible, to the following principles;(a) Adults should be able to read, hear and see what they want;
(b) Minors should be protected from material likely to harm or disturb them;
(c) Everyone should be protected from exposure to unsolicited material that they find offensive...
Dissenting South Australian Attorney-General Michael Atkinson interprets the above code such that (b) overrules (a). This is how he put it in a recent letter to a constituent reprinted on the Australian Gamer website:
"To my mind, increasing the volume of inappropriate material available (which includes even more extreme content) will just mean even more unsuitable material is on sale."
In other words, adding an R18+ certification will put more games unsuitable for minors on the shelves and that's simply more important than your rights as an adult. That's quite a leap in logic, and a frankly outrageous position to take in my view. Can you imagine the same the same justification being used for any medium other than video games?
Part of the problem is that Michael Atkinson believes, against the government's own evidence, that games are unusually harmful to children, as compared with films, television, and books. What's more, he seems not to believe that there exists the facility to stop children from playing adult games. All this despite the fact that we already have a statutory age restriction for retail (MA15+), and that games consoles have easy to use and effective parental lockout systems.
Australia's absence of an R18+ category, and the financial imperative of getting a game onto store shelves in a timely manner, means that many games intended for adult audiences (and rated 18+ in other countries) are inappropriately shoehorned into the existing MA15+ category in Australia. Far from protecting minors from adult content, our uniquely incomplete classification system has allowed them, in many cases, to legally purchase and access such content. A consistent classification system would better serve to protect the rights of children, as well as ensuring those of adults are not infringed.
As game developers, we are trying to make games that provide entertainment to players of all ages. Video games are not going to turn your children into criminals. They are, in fact, the modern face of the entertainment industry, and something that we in Australia are very good at producing.
The focus of this debate should be upon how the Australian classification system can best give adults the information they need to chose video game content for themselves and their children, without burdening our country with unjustified and draconian censorship to the amusement and pity of the rest of the world.
We can start with the immediate implementation of an R18+ games rating.
Tom Crago is the chief executive of Tantalus and president of the Game Developers' Association of Australia (GDAA).
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Comments (121)
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Roland:
31 Jul 2008 9:14:59am
With the quality of graphics that are coming out these days not having a R+18 rating is just stupid and naive of anyone who's not into computer/console games.
Once again the government is doing the role of what parents are supposed to do!!!
Monitor your own kids for goodness sakes!Agree (1) Alert moderator
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the voigtstr:
31 Jul 2008 2:10:47pm
Excellent article. As an adult, I want mature content. I respect that a rating system is important to parents so that they can supervise their children's viewing of media (and parents should take an active approach to supervising their children).
If an R rating is what is required to have a gritty, realistic vision of the future, then please give us an R rating. Otherwise I'll have to purchase the game overseas.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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DaveM:
31 Jul 2008 6:13:26pm
Agreed, excellent article.
For the record, Fallout and Fallout 2 were excellent games, in the tradition of "Wasteland" and "Bad Blood" (for those who can remember back that far). Post-apocalyptic scenarios do generally seem to involve "gritty" and bleak adult concepts - that's just part of the genre (ignoring "Tank Girl").
Why is it so much worse for Australians to be exposed to the idea of injecting adrenaline to boost your health than it is to see hi-res results of shooting humanoids in the face with a shotgun (graphically depicted in several current arcade games)?
As with most of our classification codes, violence is perfectly fine for view, but anything that hints of sex or drugs is a terrible thing, to be stamped out at any cost.
Furthermore, if anyone thinks that Fallout 3 isn't being played in Australia as a result of this decision, they're just dreaming. It's impossible to accurately monitor the number of torrent seeds and peers bringing the game in over the Internet - but I am convinced that the Government in its wisdom has simply deprived the developers of their hard-earned money, as the game will be pirated left, right and centre.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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_jase:
31 Jul 2008 9:22:20am
Totally agree with this post. No R Rating is an extremely outdated idea, and I think you would find most people are against the idea of the Government deciding what games they think we should play.
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thelonenut:
31 Jul 2008 9:22:31am
So what exactly is the problem here? As far as I am concerned, many games are moronic, violent and contain puerile, infantile sexual fantasies. Sure they are not just for kids - many kids I know are mature enough to realise computer games serve a purpose in childhhod and adolescence and do not maintain this interest as adults. More adults should stop wasting their time and money and get more exercise, instead of submerging themselves in these infantile fantasies, much like role-playing games and the like. Get Real, stop living life in some Cyber-fantasy and get over these violent fantasies -
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The Snowman:
31 Jul 2008 9:47:19am
its not about violent or sexual fantasies.
The games are about relaxation, taking time out of busy hectic lives to experience wonderful creations, storytelling and other worlds and having fun. The stories are becoming more mature, games are no longer the realm of children they belong more to adults then ever and thats why we need an R rating so that parents or anybody else can avoid them if they want to.Agree (3) Alert moderator
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The Real lonenut....:
31 Jul 2008 10:25:05am
Once again I have to say - I'm just a Patsy .....for months now I have been using the handle "thelonenut"......I believe someone else has usurped my nom de guerre, because I certainly did not write the post being obnoxious to game Players ....I agree with what everyone says abiut games, they are entertainment and have a lot of educational value .
Live and let live is what I say, who has the right to judge what others do for a hobby, nobody is hurting anyone else - as far as sex and violence goes, each day Governments subject citizens to extreme violence, obscenity and pornography in the name of "policy" - this is far more harmful to anyone than playing a computer game....Agree (0) Alert moderator
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_jase:
31 Jul 2008 9:54:08am
Think you missed the point here buddy. This isn't about rollerblading or church activities or whatever you do with your spare time, this people have chosen to play games as a hobby. It doesn't matter if you aren't into it or not
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FrOgman:
31 Jul 2008 10:05:37am
perhaps if more people were out at church activies or rollerblading we wouldn't be the most obese nation in the world buddy.
It all comes back to; Do ratings work?
My answer is no they dont.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Skewer:
31 Jul 2008 10:42:24am
What is your point Frogman?
That ratings systems don't work, so we should ban all content, including all TV, movies, radio, just in case?
That we are fat, so we should ban all indoor recreation?
That the church - or you - should decide what we do in our spare time?
Here's a smarter idea: adults can watch and play what they like, as long as there are adequate warnings and restrictions for minors.
If the aim is to keep these products out of kids hands, ban them for kids. Not grownups.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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_jase:
31 Jul 2008 11:12:39am
Where did this assumption that playing games makes you unhealthy? I'm sure most of you sit down of a night a watch t.v.
Same deal right?Agree (0) Alert moderator
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FrOgman:
31 Jul 2008 11:17:03am
The Assumption is purely off the increasing rate of computer game/television dendency in direct corrolation to the increase obesisty rate.
Naturally the food we eat doesn't help.,Agree (0) Alert moderator
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LivingFree:
31 Jul 2008 11:34:29am
yes, but the issue here isnt about obesity, its about video game censorship and the rights of adults
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Devo:
31 Jul 2008 9:54:21am
You're right, many games are moronic, violent, and contain puerile, infantile sexual fantasies. But then, many are thoughtful, creative, inspired, and tell genuinely affecting stories.
Your arguments are reminiscent of the early reaction to moving pictures and film, pop music, and just about any other small-minded moral panic.
This isn't about getting the moronic, violent and puerile games out there so that losers can play them. This is about giving people the choice, and hopefully, as more and more people come to realise that videogames are not just for kids, it will encourage them to develop as an artform.Agree (2) Alert moderator
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Spider Dijon:
31 Jul 2008 9:54:26am
So I'm guessing you don't read books, watch movies or television, or listen to music? Time to face up to the fact that video games are a new type of entertainment media. They provide much greater mental stimulation than watching the television or a movie, due to the fact that most, if not all games require problem solving. Even army personel are encouraged to play shoot 'em up games at home, to maintain good reflexes and attention to detail.
Of course, its not healthy to sit and play games all day, just as its not healthy to watch TV all day. There are more important pursuits in life, but video games are a perfectly reasonable form of entertainment.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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RuAlright:
31 Jul 2008 10:00:21am
You do realise that video games actually enhance your hand eye co-ordination as well as you brain activity, and with such things as Wii-Fit your balance, posture, and so forth.
Many people out in the real world from 18 onwards enjoy sitting back and playing a few games. Not everyone is "sub-merged" full time gaming addicts as you think. I myself have a child and enjoy such games as mentioned above, but as an adult and father i do not play them in front of my child, i wait till an appropriate time to do so.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Bertrand:
31 Jul 2008 10:01:06am
And why cant we extend that logic to tv. Should we ban big borther type shows. What exactly does Australian idol do except take up time that people should be spending doing something constructive. While these shows arent rated 18+, they are watched by audiences which make them age inappropriate, and are marketed for that audience.
One would think that a form of entertainment that requires people to interact, think and work in teams would be of considerably more social benefit than one where you sit and stare.
Any kid these days can pirate a video game. It really isnt difficult. We want to encourage people to buy games, to stay within the system so that classification systems work. If they are unable to buy games, they will pirate them.
More to the point, why shouldnt an adult be able to do what they like providing it doesnt hurt anyone else, and is not disruptive to society?Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Lurks:
31 Jul 2008 10:04:39am
That's utterly absurd. You may as well say the same about any movie, book or television that has violence or sexual content.
The only difference is here that you don't like computer games. So your narrow minded view is that there's no problem banning them for people who do.
I think more adults should look at the virtual world, meet people from outside of their pub and jogging club, people from around the world and generally think about things subjects in a far more varied and interesting way in which you do.
It might not be life to you, written off as some cyber-fantasy as you put it - but quite frankly I'll lay money on most gamers being a hell of a lot more interesting person than you'll ever be.Agree (1) Alert moderator
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John in Bris:
31 Jul 2008 10:23:40am
Nah, computer games can be great, mate. They can be a way to do cool things you just can't do in the real world. I fly f/a-18s down the grand canyon some nights while I learn to fly the real thing during the day. Yeah, obesity and other lifestyle issues are partly the result of video/computer games. But we had ataris etc when I was a kid but other factors made us skinnier - less fear, more parents at home of an arvo and less of those almost daily restrictive laws that are invented by do-gooders every time some idiot finds a creative new way to hurt themselves or others.
And sometimes when people make comments like yours mate, they are the sort of people who have helped to create the world that so many people want to get away from once in a while. Ever think of that?Agree (1) Alert moderator
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Patch:
31 Jul 2008 10:29:46am
The point here is, as im sure you didn't read a whole lot of the article, is exactly the same criticism can be given to tv, movies (especially) and books. Whats the difference?
You don't like games? Dont play them. No one else cares that you believe you have am oral high ground, you just go weave your baskets and leave the rest of us alone.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Noypi:
31 Jul 2008 10:30:09am
E-N-T-E-R-T-A-I-N-M-E-N-T.
I don't go to the gym or jog around the neighborhood because it's entertaining. I do that for my own health and because I know it's important.
If I want entertainment I go to a movie house and sit on my ass for more than 2 hours and watch "The Dark Knight". I also play videogames for entertainment and I'd rather play games like Fallout 3 or Pro Evolution Soccer instead of Diner Dash on Yahoo because that's my own personal preference. Is that so wrong? Is that moronic and indicative of indulging in infantile sexual fantasies or even puerile? I don't suppose watching the World Cup finals for several hours is also moronic? There are a lot of forms of entertainment and it is a good thing since there are so many types of people out there with different tastes and preferences.
More adults need to open up their minds to reality instead of dismissing things they know nothing about as rubbish.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Travis:
31 Jul 2008 10:37:24am
The problem here? A lack of civil rights. I'd consider that a problem.
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male 26:
31 Jul 2008 10:41:02am
the lone nut:-
You want people instead of relaxing with a game that stimulates ones mind to solve problems... whether that be in a violent or non violent way. To just do exercise.
Brilliant idea!
Today's games are becoming more like a film, with a plot, a beginning and an end. The violent games of 4-5 years ago, were the ones that really had no meaning apart from killing. If there was a story, it was loosely tied to the killing.
If people choose to spend their money on games that will entertain them, push them intellectual, and also improve one's hand eye co-ordination, that's their choice and not for the government to decide.
Tis Bulls--- that one person in South Australia can stuff up a much needed revision for the outdated classification system.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Dave P:
31 Jul 2008 11:04:41am
It's not about the content, that is immaterial. It's the fact the government/Classification Board sees it fit to censor content because they feel it is the best thing to do.
We live in a democratic, free world country not North Korea (or other opressive societies). Persons over the age of 18 have the right to choose what they should and/or can watch/play.
And there is no direct evidence linking violence with video games, that is a sticky subject that should be saved for another discussion.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Om:
31 Jul 2008 11:31:18am
I'm concerned that you consider sexual fantasies to be "infantile". If you regularly associate sex with infants, maybe you should consider seeing a specialist who can help you with such issues.
Sex is something that normal, healthy adults have good reason to be interested in.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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TRiPWiRE:
31 Jul 2008 11:58:08am
thelonenut -
Having just been placed into a box by yourself I thought I might reply.
I am a personal trainer. I am currently running 1-2 marathons per month. I am 36 years old. I play games.
One thing that leads to this sort of censorship is a misunderstanding of those who play games. Too many times I hear comments such as yours. Narrow minded comments that really are based on bulldust. If you want to place every gamer as a fat, unactive person who lives in a fantasy world then I must think of you as a small little man with no friends and very thick glasses. Girlfriend? I don't think so.
Based on your logic then I can assume that all people who complain about gamers are thusly presented.
As for an R18 rating then I feel Australia needs to pull its socks up and get it organised. I for one am sick of being told I can't play a game because some out of touch cronie in an office doesn't like needles. How many other titles have been released in Australia with similar features? Bioshocks gigantic needle? What about Max Paynes use of "painkillers" to get him on his way once injured? Medal of Honor Pacific Assault features a Medic who will first clean the needle then jab your arm with a dose of morphine. One gets through - others dont. There is no standard here - just ban because you don't understand.
Interestingly I can watch a PG rated show on Discovery Channel / Austar called Weapon Masters. In this you will be given instructions on how to turn common items into something like a powerhead or repeating crossbow. This show is on Saturday mornings nestled amongst childrens cartoon shows.
Dual standards? OFLC isn't protecting anyone with their draconic laws. Get some pople with games experience to judge these - not a group of pensioners who don't understand anything outside of their own generation.Agree (1) Alert moderator
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Devo:
31 Jul 2008 9:30:34am
Couldn't agree more, and the ABC should be ashamed of the way the issue was handled on the Q&A program. Not a single member of the panel, Tony Jones included, seemed to even realise that Australia already HAS a games ratings system. Only one member of the panel actually had the guts to at least ADMIT that they didn't understand the issue though. Everyone else carried on as though they weren't utterly ignorant of the issue, which of course they were.
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DK:
31 Jul 2008 9:43:06am
No such thing as an important game. Its a contradiction in terms. Games are entertainment, definately not life or death stuff.
I used to be a power gamer for many years playing nightly after work for 4hours so i know where these people that have to get these so called 'important' games. After touring europe life really gets put back into perspective. Get outside and experience life, dont just watch it go by on your 22" wide screen lcd.
Rating systems dont work. The only real way to sensor what gets sold in australia is the system we have at the moment, stop it coming into the country. 13yr old's will simply get an older brother or parent to buy the 18+ game, as they do, people did and will continue to do for time to come with dvds,video's and all music.
Games are like food, everything in moderation. I encourage anyone spending more then 3 hours a day on computer games to stop for a week and try something different.
Cheers,
DKAgree (0) Alert moderator
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Devo:
31 Jul 2008 10:00:17am
"No such thing as an important game".
I would almost agree with you there, almost. And I'm a gamer. But games have the potential to be more than just entertainment. They're not there yet, but they will get there. I guarantee there will come a time when they outstrip film and the novel, not only in popularity, but in scope of artistic expression.
Your points on the ratings system are confusing, illogical irrelevant. You say the only way to 'sensor' (sic) is to stop material coming into the country? I take it, then, that you would prefer to stop watching R rated movies entirely, if that's what it took to 'sensor' them?Agree (0) Alert moderator
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DK:
31 Jul 2008 10:30:52am
I undestand where your coming from about the rating system, however. My point on ratings is that no mater what sticker you put on the box someone that wants the game will get it like we do with the other sensored material.
My opinion on R rated movies is pretty simple, i think they are 95% rubbish (poor plots generally). However if we went way back before R rated movies entered Australia do i think we would be better off? yeah, i think Australia would be better without R rated movies. However thats just my opinion.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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LivingFree:
31 Jul 2008 10:45:38am
What about fight club, reservoir dogs or goodfellas??
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look out ninjas:
31 Jul 2008 11:10:38am
So essentially we should stop controlling all restrictions on films, games, movies, books, etc becasue they don't work?
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FrOgman:
31 Jul 2008 11:18:54am
Again thats not my point at all.
My point was simply leave the laws as they are.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Newbot:
31 Jul 2008 6:47:37pm
Perhaps you're missing the point? If we "simply leave the laws as they are" then it is a huge double-standard. The point is that movies, TV, books etc. get an R rating while games don't, and there is no apparent (at least to me) reason why games are being singled out like this. If you're argument applys to games (not that I think it does), then it should apply to all these things too.
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Bertrand:
31 Jul 2008 10:03:01am
Couldnt be too much of a power gamer DK, or you would realise that 13 year old kids could pirate any games they wanted. And they will want to pirate games that are banned. Ever wonder why Rockstar entertainment is so big? Because of the contrversy surrounding their games.
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DK:
31 Jul 2008 10:46:23am
~Sigh~
I never said anything about pirate game iso's or piracy in general. New technology is making it increasingly difficult to duplicate games anywho. By the way, pirate games are banned, hence the whole pirate/illegle thing.
Gasp: dont insult my x-power gamer status, lol like i care what you think.
PS: Oh my god can they really copy games these days? When could they do that ive only been working in the industry for 10 yrs.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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DRC:
31 Jul 2008 12:28:51pm
Just a few questions/observations regarding your post.
Name a new game that's hard to pirate (perhaps also look at the number of "hard to pirate" games are currently circulating torrent sites.
Indicate where the previous poster said that you mentioned pirating (you didn't, but the reference to pirating was to show that games can be obtained regardless of 'new technology' or current laws.
"By the way, pirate games are banned, hence the whole pirate/illegle thing." so? laws don't stop people from buying children games "Rating systems dont work... 13yr old's will simply get an older brother or parent to buy the 18+ game".
For 10 years in "the industry", your logic is flawed.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Matt:
31 Jul 2008 5:52:25pm
Utter rubbish. New technology may be making the process of copying a game slightly more difficult (and I do mean *slightly*) but new technology like BitTorrent is making it easier than ever to distribute once the "copy protection" has been stripped.
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Patch:
31 Jul 2008 10:32:21am
This point was covered in the article. I quote 'In other words, adding an R18+ certification will put more games unsuitable for minors on the shelves and that's simply more important than your rights as an adult.' - Did Europe really make you pro censorship? Thats sad.
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DK:
31 Jul 2008 10:49:47am
Europe made me Pro life hehe that and my game was becoming more of a job then entertainment. Sensorship in my opinion doesn't work.
I think protecting youth from sensative material IS more important then allowing a R18 sticker on a few boxes and having the harsher rating material on the shelf.
again just my opinion.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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LivingFree:
31 Jul 2008 10:36:14am
So DK, what you are trying to say is that, I should be forced to drink milk because the baby can't eat steak.
Your censorship argument is ridiculous; if parents are buying their children the game, or if an older sibling is buying it for them, that is the ignorance of the family. Lets take a look at prohibition, because a parent buys their teenage child alcohol, you're suggesting that alcohol be banned as well.
Why should the responsible people of this country be punished for the actions of those who do not think or understand the consequences of said actions.
As for living life, it is a shame that you assume; because people play video games, they dont have a life. However, I play games and I live my life, your argument is based on perpetuating a flawed and severely misguided stereotype.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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DK:
31 Jul 2008 10:55:52am
Hey mate you make great points thanks for the reply.
My point is more that the rating system doesn't work for other forms of media, why should we expect it to work for 18+ games.
About prohibition; If we could have blocked alcohol before it has entered Australian culture we probably would have been better off.
My opinon is based on my life experience. I impose no argument simple a point of view that is clearly different to majority of the people on the online news.
Remove the temptation is what the current sensorship laws do.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Joe:
31 Jul 2008 4:20:20pm
In reply to your quote "About prohibition; If we could have blocked alcohol before it has entered Australian culture we probably would have been better off."
I think you should research a bit into the bad old days of prohibition in the states before stating that banning bad things makes for a better world. (Hint: Organised crime, the speak-easy, corruption)
Banning does not remove temptation. Making laws against something a victimless as playing a game just creates an instant group criminals.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Christian:
31 Jul 2008 10:40:52am
But ofcourse said brother showing the kid XXX porn would be OK... because thats a movie and not a game. Because thats real people doing real things and not drawn characters... oh wait, the first is more real.
The 'older brother' thing works on everything above G, yes lets petition that anything above G should be RC, because an older sibling could show that too them!Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Skewer:
31 Jul 2008 10:48:29am
"Rating systems dont work. The only real way to sensor what gets sold in australia is the system we have at the moment, stop it coming into the country. 13yr old's will simply get an older brother or parent to buy the 18+ game, as they do, people did and will continue to do for time to come with dvds,video's and all music."
Nope. Two things:
1. Don't punish all adults just because a few kids get past the system. Those kids will pirate the game anyway even if you "ban" it to "protect" them.
2. Of course ratings systems aren't perfect, but they work better than a clumsy ban, that's for sure.
Are you going to ban all alcohol sales because some kids get their older brother to buy it for them?Agree (0) Alert moderator
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DK:
31 Jul 2008 11:00:47am
Again with the alcohol bit;
Answer me this question. Would Australia be a better place without alcohol?Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Skewer:
31 Jul 2008 11:32:38am
No. In my view Australia would not be better without alcohol.
In moderation alcohol is healthy. Most people who drink do it responsibly. Most people don't abuse alcohol - and those who do, it's not the alcohol that's to blame.
Plus our wine exports earn billions of dollars for the country.
And wine, beer, spirits are tasty. You don't agree - fine, don't buy it.
Anyway that is off topic.
Ratings systems may not be perfect, but they do work moderately well, and they are definitely more effective than a clumsy ban.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Dave P:
31 Jul 2008 11:20:46am
"No such thing as an important game. Its a contradiction in terms. Games are entertainment, definately not life or death stuff. "
That is totally baloney. Movies and music are life changing mediums, that allow expression of ideas, a recount of historic events and/or provide insight into such things as the human mind and spirit.
You cannot make such a claim about video games if you do not also believe it for music and film, as all are mediums of expressionAgree (0) Alert moderator
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MO:
31 Jul 2008 9:44:50am
I have taken my young son to an on-line gaming parlour.
All I can say to the pasty faced, fat and addicted clients of these places is that you really do need to get a life.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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LivingFree:
31 Jul 2008 10:24:26am
The fact that you believe all gamers are like this shows your ignorance to the issue and the gaming demographic.
Believe it or not many gamers do actually have a life. Sure many of us have probably spent whole weekends playing video games, we also have spent countless hours skiing, fishing, riding motorbikes, partying with mates, playing sport, travelling places and getting laid.
We live our lives and we play video games, and as adults we deserve the right to have access to games with adult content.Agree (1) Alert moderator
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Patch:
31 Jul 2008 10:34:04am
Thats entirely irrelevant. But what sort of a life should ganers get? Going to football matches?
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Om:
31 Jul 2008 11:24:44am
I have taken my young son to a football stadium.
All I can say to the pasty faced, fat, ignorant, loud-mouthed and addicted clients of these places is that you really do need to get a life.Agree (1) Alert moderator
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Matt:
31 Jul 2008 5:45:45pm
I have taken my young son to Parliament.
All I can say to the pasty faced, fat, ignorant, loud-mouthed and out of touch people I saw there is that they really do need to get a life.
:)Agree (2) Alert moderator
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Tom:
31 Jul 2008 9:45:21am
If a child was to go into a video store to hire out an +18 movie, they wouldn't be able to, would go the same if it they tried to buy an 18+ game.
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FrOgman:
31 Jul 2008 10:03:09am
I never had a problem throughout my 14-18 yrs. The mode of aquiring a 18+ dvd/video/cd may change but at the end of the day you have the dvd/video/cd in your hand.
Since when did rules ever stop youth?Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Ford:
31 Jul 2008 10:24:42am
Lol
You evidently haven't been to a video store lately...or a cinema.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Spider Dijon:
31 Jul 2008 9:47:26am
Tom, I couldn't agree more. Too long have video games been viewed as a childish pursuit. I'm 22 now, my brother 30, my cousin 32, and my mother 56. All of us enjoy video games, and all of us are mature, consenting adults. In fact, all of those kids who started playing video games years and years ago are all grown up now. I'm sure its time to cater to that market. I find it somewhat unfair that we are restricted to "kiddy" games, when you can go out and buy a dvd or book with violence, sex or drug use as the central theme. It's not my fault that parents are incapable of keeping a track of their kids activities. Why should adult gamers be punished for the flaws of incompetant parents?
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ram:
31 Jul 2008 10:04:30am
Given the prices of full-out gaming machines and large high resolution monitors one can hardly doubt that most of these are bought by mature adults. There should be a sensible rating system so local retailers can sell these games (and the government collect the tax) rather than having them smuggled in from overseas.
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rfnk:
31 Jul 2008 2:45:40pm
Assuming that purchasing `full-out gaming machines and large high resolution monitors' is a sign of maturity, of course!
Don't think I'm quite there yet.
Do agree with you and the article, though. the censorship of this stuff is nonsense.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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dragon:
31 Jul 2008 10:11:33am
And they wonder why piracy and peer-to-peer file sharing is rampant !
The whole censorship thing is moot these as you can just download a copy legally from the distributors anyway. Usually at a lower than retail price :)Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Taxat:
31 Jul 2008 10:38:12am
I can't believe this discussion. All I need to do is look at the quote world's most important video games are effectively banned what on earth is important about wasting time on video games with all the other issues we are currently facing?
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dragon:
31 Jul 2008 10:51:55am
because you can't go through life worryimg about EVERYTHING, take some time out and do something that you enjoy. Gaming, gardening, reading ... whatever :)
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Devo:
31 Jul 2008 11:09:43am
You don't consider artistic censorship and civil rights to be important issues, Taxat?
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Dave:
31 Jul 2008 3:25:43pm
Whats not important to you IS important to someone else!
I don't consider the latest series of your favorite ABC period drama to be very important but I don't trash it and ask for a ban on it, you CHOOSE to watch it, just like I choose to play mature video games.
How dare you judge gamers as "wasting time", I view older adults sweeping the footpath outside their homes as a waste of time buts thats their choice!
Why is it that us "immature gaming nerds" are more mature and sensible in this argument than the people who don't play games?Agree (0) Alert moderator
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John in Bris:
31 Jul 2008 10:14:10am
Hey you're preaching to the choir here mate. And I see this as part of a poor overall approach by the Government to the emerging (arrived???) IT world. The previous government failed to properly manage the most critical phase of the growth of the internet and IT sectors and we are now getting to a high acceptance and prevalence of the net but with lower quality infrastructure than many countries with significantly lower gdp per person. In other words - plenty of poorer countries were smarter than us and they are at an advantage now. South Korea has much better net and they spend lots more on education too - nice one Johnny. Add to this the statistical anomaly of the older, less "with-it" baby boomers running the show and I don't know how soon this will change mate. I heard that Soldier of Fortune was banned recently? What a joke.
To be fair, I reckon you need to give a new regime a year or so to get the hang of the job, especially after so long in the wilderness. After about November however, I will be blaming them fully for silliness like this. The economy is on a slower cycle so I won't be blaming the Krudster for the looming crap anytime soon but I will be wanting to see some sensible "reforms" for this sort of stuff pretty soon now.
In other news, I am still impressed with this Unleashed concept on the ABC site - I remember it started in October or November last year and it is great to see the variety of stuff people are writing - and responding - about. Too many people with ideas who never saw a way to put them out there before. Good stuff. cheers JohnAgree (0) Alert moderator
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David Ferstat:
31 Jul 2008 10:32:58am
I think it's important to realise here that computer games are the new form of story-telling.
The first storytelling was oral. Then there was theatre, then books, then comics and films. Now there's computer games. The new thing about computer games is that they're interactive. That is, the player can interact with the story. But it's still story-telling.
And, like all story-telling, some stories are made for children, and some are made for adults.
Think about it. Some movies are made for children, and some are made for adults. Some comics are made for children, and some are made for adults. And, most relevant here, some computer games are made for children, and some are made for adults.
Unfortunately, we have a censorship system in Australia that does not yet recognise this last fact.
In the eyes of these censors, it seems, all computer games are made for children, and only children play computer games. The consequence here is that those people who don't fit into the censors' preconceptions, the adult players of computer games, miss out on stories, and experiences (however virtual), that they would otherwise enjoy, and that would enrich their lives, which is the point of culture, pop- or otherwise.
As the Office of Film & Literature Classification (OFLC) falls, as I understand it, under the powers of the Federal Attorney General, it seems clear that the industry, and the (would-be) consumers of these more adult games, need to address the Attorney General and get him to change how the OFLC operates.Agree (1) Alert moderator
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Devo:
31 Jul 2008 10:35:01am
The most offensive part of this issue is the fact that the majority of people are in favour of an R18+ rating for games. The system is being held back by just one dissenting wowser, Michael Atkinson, who has his head firmly buried in archaic attitudes, and whose stated views directly contradict all clinical research.
Which brings me to another priceless nugget from Q&A the other night, and there were many: Heather Ridout's assertion that 'we just don't know what effects these games could have on kids' (naturally linking video games with kids, without even bothering to stop and think) because of their interactive nature. Actually Heather, we do know. There have been dozens, hundreds of clinical studies. The answer you're looking for is 'no effect whatsoever'.Agree (1) Alert moderator
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Patch:
31 Jul 2008 10:35:57am
There was argument over this point when i was in highschool. Ten years on and politicians still have their head in the sand over the now known fact that games aren't going anywhere. Aren't they bigger than movies now?
The 'R' classification is too long over due. Why are we still talking about this?Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Christian:
31 Jul 2008 10:37:07am
For anyone saying kids will have access to more violent/drug using/sexualized games your COMPLETELY wrong.
Games that are RC are changed in the smallest way to meet MA15+, EG they are on the highest ends of what that classification allow. GTA4 is a great example, should be R18+, but they 'hide' the sex scenes and let all the drug/violence stay, and makes it pretty clear there is sex going on. Now thats MA15+ and available to a much larger audience.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Bullfrog:
31 Jul 2008 11:23:07am
A figure regularly used by the gaming industry - average age of gamers, 28.
If we are going to argue that rating systems don't prevent acces, then we need to ban everything that would have gone beyond 'G'.
Since we won't do that, the only reasonable approach is to have the same spectrum of ratings available, and put some appropriate penalties in place for those who supply restricted material in ways that are against those restrictions (eg games/ movies / magazines / etc.)
And for those who call gaming infantile - no more so than spending a ridiculous amount of money for a few % increase in output (cars), or any other hobby. Hobbies by definition are a waste of time. However, as long as it harms no other, we shouldn't disparage people's choices.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Megasaxon:
31 Jul 2008 11:23:40am
Viva la Ratbag!
My biggest concern, which I'm glad to see has finally been raised, is the pigeonholing of current "Adult" titles into the MA 15+ category.
Our inconsistent rating system and lack of an R 18 classification is doing more harm than good.
If anything, an introduction of an adult classification would reduce the amount of inappropriate content finding it's way into children's hands.
Given the average age of gamers, politicians would be doing themselves a massive electoral favour by actually sitting down, listening, thinking and then acting on behalf of the people who support them.
That'll be the day.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Rick:
31 Jul 2008 11:27:30am
I totally agree.
So, what can we do and how do we proceed and get an R18 rating into the system?Agree (0) Alert moderator
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David:
31 Jul 2008 11:36:24am
People will get this one of the most anticipated game no matter what, no government organisation can stop that. When are the politicians ever going to realise that?
The responsibility to protect the children also falls squarely on the parents, not the government.
Currently everyone loses with this lack of R18 rating. Retailers lose sales, adult gamers can't play the games they're supposed to have the rights to play (legally) while underage gamers will still get their hands on banned games (illegally).Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Ford:
31 Jul 2008 11:37:42am
I got a copy of Fallout 3 from overseas, and it was worth every penny.
I've seen far more disturbing violence in other games with a M15 rating (Clocktower 3 anyone??)...and the references to drug use contained in the game are laughable, and also inconsistent given the PS3 game "Haze" got through without a mention (you spend most of it hopped up on drugs to improve your performance...it's like the Olympics with more guns).
FO3 kicks it...there's copies available...do yaself a favour!Agree (0) Alert moderator
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fdr:
31 Jul 2008 12:06:43pm
Huh? It hasn't been released yet. Here or overseas.
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Ford:
31 Jul 2008 12:12:34pm
Neither has JLO's new album, and you can download that too.
Erm...not that I'd want to you understand...but the option is there :SAgree (0) Alert moderator
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bertrand:
31 Jul 2008 3:23:41pm
presumably the pennies you paid for it were zero, so i hope its worth more than that.
Just out of interest, which site did you get it from, how many gb is it and was it easy to crack?Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Dave:
31 Jul 2008 3:28:48pm
You DON'T have Fallout 3 yet, don't lie.
But i still encourage everyone to import when it is released!Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Matt:
31 Jul 2008 5:56:10pm
Not only has Fallout 3 not been released, it isn't even finished and isn't showing up in a leaked form.
What you might have gotten was the Fallout 3 tech demo... prior to Bethesda obtaining the rights and scrapping that version of the game.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Gamer:
31 Jul 2008 11:38:30am
as a game developer and a huge gamer. we honestly are shooting ourselves in the foot here with this archaic censorship system. To the point where we all will eventually buy imported games. Luckily fallout 3 isnt officially "banned" just refused classification.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/84959-Fallout-3-In-Australia-The-Real-Skinny
all this is doing is putting Aussie game retailers out of business. hurting our economy.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Uncle D:
31 Jul 2008 12:08:46pm
Gamer I couldn't agree more - I feel that the ones who are getting hurt are the creators and developers
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Matt:
31 Jul 2008 6:01:12pm
Refused Classification means the same as banned. RC means you can't sell it in this country and legally you can't import it, either.
There's no "Banned" classification that is above RC, RC is it!Agree (0)
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