Email

Shame, humilation, anger the legacy of intervention: doctors

Posted August 29, 2008 06:40:00
Updated August 29, 2008 06:49:00

Anger: Women burn a shredded copy of the intervention legislation at an Alice Springs rally last year (ABC News: Lexi Metherell)

The Australian Indigenous Doctors Association (AIDA) says the federal intervention has had a negative effect on the health and emotional wellbeing of people in the targeted communities.

The assessment came in a submission to the Northern Territory emergency response review board.

The association's 18-page submission found that many people living in remote communities had feelings of shame, humiliation and a loss of dignity when the laws came in.

It also found Indigenous people have been left with a feeling of mistrust and anger towards Western culture, and the introduction of dry areas within regional centres has had no effect on stopping problem drinkers.

The organisation says it does not consider the child health checks brought in as part of the intervention to be anything more than the right of all Australians to have access to health care.

The study urges the Federal Government to consult more broadly with individual Indigenous communities in the future and says the blanket approach to Aboriginal policy is failing.

Intervention measures include the quarantining of welfare payments for those living in proscribed areas and alcohol restrictions.

The review board is due to report back to the Federal Government at the end of the month.

Tags: community-and-society, indigenous, welfare, government-and-politics, federal-government, aboriginal, australia, nt

Comments (66)

Comments for this story are closed. No new comments can be added. If you would like to have your say on this issue, you can do so via the Emails section of our Opinion pages.

• Doh:

  29 Aug 2008 7:48:56am

  Those who are the problem can never see the problem.

  Agree (1) Alert moderator

  • ImHALFleft:

    29 Aug 2008 8:12:54am

    I don't think Indigenous Doctors Association is the problem but a lack of them, and all the while having to work over an extremenly vast and remote area with limited funding and facilities.
    
    The Government should consider shutting down some of these remote communities for the sake of future generations.
    
    Bring the people into larger communities and build the schools in order to give the kids a better chance in life.
    
    Then all we have to do is get RuAlright to give one of the "bludgers" an actual job.

    Agree (1) Alert moderator

    • Sam:

      29 Aug 2008 8:24:27am

      That hasn't worked any other time in the past. Indigenous Australians do not all belong to one unifying culture and any attempt to put different groups together ends up creating more problems. Just look at the old Edward River settlement (now Pormpuraaw) where a number of groups from Northern Qld were resettled before the settlement was closed down and the relocated Aborigines kicked out. The town has been re-opened, yes, but there's still a residual antagonism between the two groups which live there.
      
      You can't just uproot people, throw them together and expect them to live in perfect harmony with white jobs and white culture.
      
      If you wanted to shut down unsustainable communities, you'd have to look to the outer suburbs of every capital city in Australia and forcibly relocate those people for "their own good". Urban sprawl's not working.

      Agree (0) Alert moderator

    • Doh:

      29 Aug 2008 8:28:10am

      It wasn't the makers of the report that I was thinking of in particular. It was more the self-defeating nature of the whole debate surrounding the problems of Australia's Aboriginal population.
      
      Every single idea to help the situation no matter who puts it forward is wrong according to every other stakeholder.

      Agree (1) Alert moderator

      • Slimmer:

        29 Aug 2008 8:55:57am

        Let's put it this way. There is (alas) alcoholism and child abuse (to mention just two of many equally shocking and dreadful social problems) in every Australian community. Let's have a wild guess and say at least some of these problems might just be roughly inversly proportional to the wealth and level of education of the community concerned.
        
        So let's do an "intervention" in every disfunctional poverty stricken community in Australia? Would we expect to make positive difference to any white community that way, no matter how poor and uneducated they were?
        
        Any solution that just attacks the symptoms will get nowhere - any solution that tries to change the root causes is brought up short by the main root cause, which is racism.

        Agree (0) Alert moderator

      • Brad:

        29 Aug 2008 9:44:43am

        What is the alternative? Do nothing?
        
        I think this is another case of you are damned if you do and you're damned if you don't.
        
        The Government can't be expected to just throw money at white or indiginous communities affected by child abuse and alcoholism. It is important to keep in perspective that if some 'middle aged white guy' was abusing under age children then the community would expect this person to be put in jail for life. It seems that if it happens within a community as a result of 'ignorance' or otherwise then we need to tread carefully to stop offending the offenders.
        
        I think in matters of child safety a heavy handed approach is appropriate.

        Agree (1) Alert moderator

      • mack:

        29 Aug 2008 9:59:59am

        Thre must come a time when the representatives of mainstream society - the people who actually fund these initiatives - simply gives up. If aboriginal people insist on living in remote communities, then maybe this is as good as it is going to get.

        Agree (0) Alert moderator

      • chalkie:

        29 Aug 2008 10:34:06am

        "main root cause . . . racism"
        
        Ah, the 'special category victim'-myth gets another workout. How, exactly, does the attitudes of one group get magically translated into a drunk aboriginal man beating the skin off his wife in an outstation?
        
        This thread correctly notes the inverse relationship between some key social indicators (education, wealth etc) and others (crime, alcholism etc). The only radical idea in this is that to note this relationship takes away from the race-card used by selfinterested Aboriginal leaders whose own power rests in establishing themseleves as intermediaries between govt (and its money) and Aborigines. Of course they will attack any solution that sees individuals as part of a solution rather than some amorphous, undefined 'indigenous' issue, as if a term can adequately explain the complexities of what is a multitude on individuals facing diverse and changing problems. Another con is for such apologists for self interest to emphsise the 'indigenous' exemptionalism of these problems. Sure, they have unique features but there is no serious evidence that this removes individual agency. Blaming racism (ie whites are the problem) is a cop out, and part of the problem.

        Agree (0) Alert moderator

    • carrie:

      29 Aug 2008 10:21:48am

      i agree that these remote communities do need shutting down. it sounds horrible and racist, but i was only talking about this last night with my husband (as i am currently studying indigenous health at uni) and it seems, we left them out there, so they could fend for themselves, as they wanted...but they are destroying themselves.
      
      sadly tho, there is no "one" solution as there are so many contributing factors.
      
      and no wonder there is no trust between the indigenous and the white doctors- they say that like its some new revelation - did they forget about colonisation? lol
      
      the issues here never cease to overwhelm me.

      Agree (0) Alert moderator

• Patrick:

  29 Aug 2008 7:51:55am

  This report is very disturbing. It is entirely unacceptable that reliable organisations with long experience in the field feel that they must report findings of this kind.
  
  It is also unacceptable that this sort of situation exists after the expenditure of many billions of dollars over many years to try to improve the conditions of Aboriginal Australians. What on earth is happening to this money (currently running at perhaps $1.5 billion per year, although it's difficult to get figures)? How is it that so much money can be spent with so little result?
  
  I have no objection to seeing this this money spent on the Aboriginal community. It is, for example, less than 10% of the annual Australian defence vote so it is relatively small in the overall scheme of things. But why have, apparently, so many programs been failures? Why, apparently, has so much money been misspent?
  
  It seems clear that amongst other things, there has been a lack of accountability in Canberra -- both at the political level and from the bureaucracy -- for many years. When very large amounts of money are spent and there is little to show for it, both politicians and their officials should be asked to explain what has gone wrong.

  Agree (0) Alert moderator

  • chrispy:

    29 Aug 2008 8:44:49am

    Where is the money going? Well there is a company I know that builds transportable houses for indiginous communities. These houses cost a fortune because they are build with the most sturdy construction methods and appliances (plus it's government money so you can add a little extra to the cost). Then they go out to the community and last a very short lifespan, get demolished then the cycle begins again. I suspect the lifespan is short because they are given away rather than purchased but the point is there is huge amounts of money constantly pouring into housing.

    Agree (0) Alert moderator

• hugh from plumbers today:

  29 Aug 2008 7:52:15am

  i dont think anyone has the right to comment on this topic

  Agree (0) Alert moderator

  • kenl:

    29 Aug 2008 9:37:44am

    If a part of the comunity claims to have rights (of all sorts)
    '
    And basically all of those "rights" are tax payer funded.
    
    Then taxpayers have a right to comment

    Agree (0) Alert moderator

    • G:

      29 Aug 2008 10:01:13am

      I think Hugh was referring to the lack of comprehension and understanding that most posters have, in regards to the issue at hand.
      
      As is always the case, most people who post have no idea what they're talking about, the ramifications of their philosophies, and any alternatives.
      
      I agree that the taxpayers have a right to say where their money goes - but not if they're uninformed.

      Agree (0) Alert moderator

      • Bertrand:

        29 Aug 2008 11:00:46am

        I would argue that there is very little understanding from ABC posters about any topic that goes up. Doesnt really stop anyone putting forward their point of view.
        
        This is the talk back of the internet.

        Agree (0) Alert moderator

  • Andrew:

    29 Aug 2008 10:24:05am

    Maybe no-one has the qualifications to comment on this topic, but I think Indigenous people have a right to talk about the intervention, and parlimentaries have an obligation to talk about it to gather opinion from the electorate.

    Agree (0) Alert moderator

• RuAlright:

  29 Aug 2008 7:52:18am

  So you complain the government does nothing for you, they see that the average life span of an Aboriginal is smaller. Government intervenes in best interest to cut down the alcohol abuse, bludgers and so forth. Send in doctors to help your children and now your blaming them for bringing you all down ????
  
  Gee whiz your welfare payments are being cut, you now have dry areas which im sure are not adhered too by the troublemakers anyway, you have doctors giving free health checks to communities that never had access (due to being remote and not due to anything else)
  
  It's never enough is it ? When are you all going to realise that if you want to be one with the rest of the country - special treatment as you have had in the previous years, and you demand, will only seperate yourselves more.
  
  You want Australia to be one - time to step up and out of the shadows of the past.
  
  Stop blaming everyone else.

  Agree (0) Alert moderator

  • Kevin Rennie:

    29 Aug 2008 8:18:39am

    The perception that nothing is ever achieved in aboriginal communities is a persistent one but far from reality. Maningrida, a remote Arnhem Land community, has an outstanding ranger program. It also had 13 students graduate in 2007 after completing their Year 12 Northern Territory Certificate of Education, some with good Tertiary Entrance Ranks. This is the same qualification as South Australia.
    
    "Those who are the problem can never see the problem." I can only suggest that blaming the disadvantaged is part of the problem.

    Agree (0) Alert moderator

    • RuAlright:

      29 Aug 2008 8:39:14am

      The perception is one based on the high majority of what is already known.
      
      Yes we all know there are some brilliant aboriginal people out there, and kudos to them for wanting to do something with themselves and their lives whatever it may be.

      Agree (0) Alert moderator

    • Neal:

      29 Aug 2008 8:40:25am

      A student achieving their high school certificate is a great things, but what future outcomes do those students have. A remote community can only offer so many positions.

      Agree (0) Alert moderator

    • mack:

      29 Aug 2008 10:08:13am

      I don't think that "blaming the disadvantaged" is what is happening here, Kevin.
      
      We taxpayers rarely, if ever, get to hear from genuinely disadvantaged aboriginals . We hear instead from the usual whineing black and white acedemics who complain that whatever is done is wrong (or worse, racist) - and without having any solutions of their own other than to truck in more taxpayers dollars.
      
      

      Agree (0) Alert moderator

    • dazzle:

      29 Aug 2008 10:58:42am

      Nice to read a positive comment!
      
      I would add that there are many aspects of Aboriginal cultural/social organisation that are far superior to the dominant Europen structures. One example is that when a child's Mother dies then the child still has a Mother - they are not automatically orphaned. Could we (the majority) ever inculcate this notion into our structures? We could not, no matter how sensible. So it is equally stupid for us lot to expect that Aboriginal people can just 'be like us'.
      
      The intervention was always a pre poll stunt by the Howard government - an attemp to divide and distract. Rudd had no choice to follow at that time, but should now move away from the this ill conceived, heavy footed, interventionist approach.

      Agree (0) Alert moderator

  • Tan:

    29 Aug 2008 8:19:32am

    I don't think it's that simple. Imagine if you had been taken away from your parents and told you whole way of life way was wrong. That affects people's self esteem and confidence. Then imagine you live in poverty where you never known people who went to school. Intergenerational poverty starts. Getting out of poverty is difficult, you can't simply walk out of it. You need opportunities. The other problem is this white people making solutions for indigenous people. The policy makers are not thinking from the perspective of an indigenous person. The other point is yes free doctors are good, but you need a follow-up, you can't just give free doctors once and expect everything will be solved, medical problems take more than one visit to solve. The white community needs to listen more to the indigenous community.

    Agree (0) Alert moderator

    • RuAlright:

      29 Aug 2008 8:43:50am

      This is the world here and now and opportunities exist - take the fruit picking for a small example. Sure it's not for everyone but it's a start for those who wish to participate - and there inlies the problem - they wish not to participate.
      
      Even Mundine himself opted to cut welfare for those who were not actively seeking employment. What does that say to you ?

      Agree (0) Alert moderator

      • Tan:

        29 Aug 2008 9:27:31am

        Again you have over simplified the situation. First fruit picking doesn't exist in remote communities. Second, these people are poor and cannot afford the travel costs to get to the fruit picking. That also means they cannot afford their accommodation over meals. I do not believe they do not wish to participate look at the take of CDEP.

        Agree (0) Alert moderator

      • RuAlright:

        29 Aug 2008 10:24:51am

        Hence it was a small example. Point of the matter is The government is doing what is best in order for these people to live a life without SOME of the problems they are facing and they are rejecting it yet again. And for what ? They don't feel like it is good enough - which brings me to the next argument - WHEN IS IT EVER GOOD ENOUGH ????

        Agree (0) Alert moderator

  • llanfair:

    29 Aug 2008 8:52:10am

    I agree with your sentiment, but this not only applies to indigenous Australians. Why is the Government spending billions of dollars on health care for people with chronic diseases brought on by lifestyle issues such as obeisity, smoking and alcohol consumption? If these people choose to maintain habits detrimental to their health, shouldn't they also have to wear the consequences?

    Agree (0) Alert moderator

    • loggy:

      29 Aug 2008 9:25:43am

      OK then.
      So what are the consequences for not quite achieving genocide?
      Shame?
      Embarrassment?
      Denial?
      
      It isn't an Aboriginal problem, it is an Historical problem and we are all in it.

      Agree (0) Alert moderator

  • Dread:

    29 Aug 2008 9:47:00am

    Following 180 years of colonial warfare and protectionism, and 30 odd years of misguided, paternalistic welfare policies you expect people in remote, marginalized Indigenous communities to suddenly dust ourselves off, pick up our briefcases and head into the city - all because your intentions are good?
    
    I'll worship at the shrine of freedom of speech 'til the day I die, but I will occasionally blaspheme when uninformed, slack-jawed backwater yokels like RuAlright are given forums to post such unintelligible poison.
    
    We do need the money, we do need the assistance, we need the resources - but these intervention policies will only work when there is a high level of Indigenous consultation and participation - they cannot be formed through bureaucratic Anglo frameworks.
    
    
    

    Agree (0) Alert moderator

    • RuAlright:

      29 Aug 2008 10:10:50am

      We do need the money, we do need the assistance, we need the resources - but these intervention policies will only work when there is a high level of Indigenous consultation and participation - they cannot be formed through bureaucratic Anglo frameworks.
      
      So participate then, and stop blaming "whitefolk" and the Government for the problems in your communities.

      Agree (0) Alert moderator

    • chalkie:

      29 Aug 2008 10:45:55am

      I suspect underlying many of the critical posts here is a rejection of the idea that Aborigines have a right to operate as a distinct group in this or other issues.
      
      You establish an us - vs Anglo paradigm: many in the broader community (some 98% of the nation) see this as either objectional in principle or unworkable in practice.
      
      Your post argues "give us money and stuff and let us spend it how we will" yet to get unique treament among welfare recipients sounds like paternalism by another name. Of course, I suspect you see this money as partial reparations but are perhaps not brave enough to name it thus.

      Agree (0) Alert moderator

• Vulcan:

  29 Aug 2008 8:15:12am

  I've lived in the Northern Territory.
  
  From what I know was happening with indigenous women and children there are men in the aboriginal community who should feel shamed - the perpetrators.
  
  From what I know was happening with indigenous women and children there are men and women in the aboriginal community who should feel shamed - those who stood by, saw it happening, and yet did nothing.
  
  You members of the indigenous community for whom the above shoe fits have no right whatsoever to complain when we, the rest of Australian society, step in for the good of the victims of this abuse. If you had taken care of it yourselves as is your responsibility in your culture and communities, then this intervention would have never had to happen.

  Agree (0) Alert moderator

  • Felix:

    29 Aug 2008 9:15:08am

    Well written Vulcan. I've lived here for 30+ years. There has been passive encouragement (by doing nothing to address these issues) by some society members as well as direct involvement - hence the need for a drastic intervention.
    
    Why is there so little investigation of the NT government's obvious lack of effort in this area? They have been extremely well funded by the Commonwealth for many years. Is it simply another example of a less than efficient layer of government that serves little practical purpose?
    
    If the actions prevent one child from being sexually, mentally or physically abused - or dying hungry, it's worthwhile.

    Agree (0) Alert moderator

• Sinbad:

  29 Aug 2008 8:16:17am

  This is all a smokescreen, land is the real issue.
  
  The mining companies want the land and the Government is going to get it for them.
  
  The Government knows the people would be outraged if aboriginal people were thrown off their land again, so help them.
  Help them that much that they run away in fear.
  
  

  Agree (0) Alert moderator

  • Stop_the_madness:

    29 Aug 2008 10:43:26am

    Or perhaps it is not all a conspiracy by mining companies, and is being done (whether midguidedly or not) out of concern for the welfare of disadvantaged aboriginal people...

    Agree (0) Alert moderator

• Peter Burrows:

  29 Aug 2008 8:16:40am

  Shame humiliation and anger and one less child sexually abused, sounds like a road to success to me. Dont like the solution then come up with a better one.

  Agree (0) Alert moderator

• LOZZA:

  29 Aug 2008 8:18:49am

  Nothing Austalia does will be good enough, and if anyone critices outcomes the racist line.
  Just keep the handouts coming.

  Agree (0) Alert moderator

• Skeptical:

  29 Aug 2008 8:28:39am

  What I liked about the intervention was that some-one was prepared to take on the "Indigenous Industry" - and simply provide services to people who really needed it. It seemed all that the "Indigenous Industry" had were excuses why things couldn't be done and why services couldn't be provided.
  
  And here we go again - The AIDA claim that the intervention had a NEGATIVE effect on the health and emotional wellbeing.
  
  There is no evidence to substantiate a negative effect on health, and only flimsy evidence "feelings of shame and mistrust" to support a notion of effect on emotional wellbeing. Further - anything positive - ie That the kids actually got a health check - is belittled to anything "more than a right of all Australians ..."
  
  Yeah well AIDA - it was the intervention that gave them that BASIC right. Thats what its purpose was. The kids weren't getting basic rights from their state governments, or indeed their local communities. Thats were the shame and humiliation should lie.
  
  I think the AIDA should reconsider exactly where they point their criticisms.

  Agree (0) Alert moderator

  • mamhuhu:

    29 Aug 2008 9:18:11am

    Actually, you're right - Indigenous communities have for decades gone without what other Australians had as basic rights, yet you seem to think they should be grateful that it has been imposed on them in this way. The whole intervention has been underpinned by the concept of these basic rights being a punishment for belonging to an Indigenous community.
    The remote nature of these communities is only a part of the problem. As Tan says, when you have been belittled as part of an 'inferior' race for generations it affects every aspect of life. The idea that European culture is superior and should be aspired to is laughable from that perspective. What has it achieved from an historical point of view for indigenous people, except dispossession and the destruction of their lives and families?
    When their traditional culture was destroyed there was nothing to replace it - they were not entitled to the benefits of the society that replaced theirs, they were treated as little better than animals. Yes, it's time to move on, but when you're at the bottom of the pile that's not as easy as it sounds.
    
    Of course those who claim that the intervention is saving indigenous children from all the horrors of abuse and neglect are the same people who think that all indigenous parents are abusive/neglectful and that all white parents are not. If you look at the lower social strata of white communities I think you would find very a similar picture of neglect and abuse that has existed from generation to generation until it becomes the norm for SOME people.
    It's hard to believe that the whole of a white community would be made to undergo these sort of checks if SOME people were abusing their children; the responsibility would be seen as that of the individuals involved.
    
    That said, I wish there was a simple answer to such a complex problem.

    Agree (1) Alert moderator

    • Skeptical:

      29 Aug 2008 9:47:33am

      Mamhuhu - I have no argument with you regarding the travesties experienced by Indigenous Australia. Why this continues to happens will be argued and discussed and argued ....
      I take issue with you over the intervention being "..by the concept of these basic rights being a punishment for belonging to an Indigenous community" and your notion that "...same people who think that all indigenous parents are abusive/neglectful and that all white parents are not."
      To deal with the latter first - there is a great deal of evidence to show that there is quite a degree of abuse and neglect in the white population as well. One only has to see the public outrage when this is highlighted, particularly the inactions of DOCS. So to be fair, I think the community at large realises abuse and neglect arises across the board, and do not tolerate it from anyone. So the feelings toward the indigenous community really is no different.
      Hence, most people saw the intervention as taking the services to indigenous communities - to provide health and protection / security to children that the rest of Australia provides. I think this quite an admirable goal.
      Finally - there are members of the community (white) who regularly have to go through checks to monitor the welfare of their children. Sometimes this results in the removal of the children and prosecution of the parent.
      
      Agree it is a complex problem - that only continues if good people do nothing.

      Agree (0) Alert moderator

      • mamhuhu:

        29 Aug 2008 10:15:31am

        You're wrong there, Skeptical. The community at large see the problem of child abuse and neglect as being one that is concentrated in indigenous communities. I think to some extent that this is a result of the way the media report these issue - sensationalism and pigeon holing rule! Partly an ostrich attitude - Not in my community! I think most average Australians see the intervention as a policing exercise directed at people who are simply not capable of managing their own lives without this sort of interference.
        As an outsider - having only lived in Australia for the last 17 years or so - I found the attitudes of my generation (50 ish) of 'real' Australians (not poms and not 'abos') quite disconcerting.
        By and large Aboriginal people were viewed as the shadowy drunks living in humpies in the blacks' camp at the edge of town. That is how they were bought up to see them - as outsiders. Non existent really unless there was trouble and if there was trouble it was always of their making.
        They weren't seen as people with needs or problems of their own, as far as I can tell and I think when you read some of the posts here those attitudes still underpin many of the pronouncements.

        Agree (0) Alert moderator

      • Skeptical:

        29 Aug 2008 10:42:30am

        We may disagree about the views of the Australian public.
        
        The issue is - if child abuse and neglect exists anywhere - it should be dealt with. Sitting on our hands - because it is a remote indigenous community, or any other reason - remains irresponsible in modern Australia.
        

        Agree (0) Alert moderator

• john conner:

  29 Aug 2008 8:29:42am

  Damned if you do, Damned if you don't!!!
  
  it is thime they stopped holding their hands out and took charge of their own destinies.
  
  or they will just fade away, and be remembered as a footnote to history.

  Agree (1) Alert moderator

• thoughts:

  29 Aug 2008 8:34:35am

  Instead of wasting grey matter to negate all advice and guidance, why not create plausible solution to a problem.
  This is bad, that is bad, the other is bad so what's your
  advice if any or is all grey matter used in being negative?
  It's worth trying anything to remedy the situation so - find
  solutions not statements.

  Agree (0) Alert moderator

  • Kat:

    29 Aug 2008 8:51:17am

    ...and your solution is?
    
    This problem will never go away as long as we continue with aparthide solutions. That is what they are. When all our society is treated equally, totally equally, then we may see a light at the end of the tunnel which isn't a train coming the other way.
    
    Any community of white people who took it upon themselves to live in an extremely remote area would be left to their own devices. Full stop

    Agree (0) Alert moderator

    • Barry:

      29 Aug 2008 10:50:11am

      You are confusing apartied with socialism. Apartied is the official policy of racial segregation, socialism is a dreamers ideal of all people being equal and sharing the wealth.
      
      The former only applies in Australia if you consider non indigenous or non tribal people cannot enter someone elses range with out a permit, the latter has been tried many times but has never been successful anywhere in the world because there is always someone who feels they are entitled to more than the others.
      
      Furthermore you're claim to aparthied is laughable. What job, property, item can these people not own? Where can these repressed people not travel to? What voice are they not allowed to raise? Like most of us we all want possessions, travel, access to everyday things. It's just that some people are prepared to get off the welfare teat long enough to learn to stand on our own two feet and have stopped blaming everyone else form our own lot in life.

      Agree (0) Alert moderator

  • M S :

    29 Aug 2008 9:10:40am

    It is remarkable how ill informed most Australians are about the Northern Territory. Prior to the Commonwealth taking control of the Northern Territory in 1911 the Northern Territory was arguably the most violent and oppressive 'colony' in Australia where killing of Aboriginals outside Palmerston (Darwin in 1911)was silently sanctioned by a impotent distant government and the violent sexual oppression of the survivors was an essential part of the territory 'lifestyle'. When the Commonwealth took control of the Northern Territory in 1911 the killing did not stop. The killings of Blue Mud Bay and Coniston are still part of living memory for man Territory Aboriginal people. The Commonwealth administrative regime from protection, assimilation, Self determination, mutual obligation to the intervention are just one continuous line of misconcieved and ill administered policies based on the false premise that you can take away a peoples soveriegn rights, treat people as peons and think that this will be ok.
    
    The Commonwealth government and all Australians must recognise and acknowledge its own history, understand the profound loss of Aboriginal people, the abject failure of past and present 'solutions' and seek new paths for the legacy of history to be overcome.

    Agree (0) Alert moderator

    • RuAlright:

      29 Aug 2008 9:24:41am

      And it's fair time for Aboriginals to stop living in the past and dwelling on such times.

      Agree (0) Alert moderator

      • Lance:

        29 Aug 2008 10:13:54am

        As a usually quite observer of these forums, i must say that RuAlright usually (not always- but more often then the rest of yas) hits the nail on the head.
        
        The past is the past. Look at what is happening today; the people in the aboriginal communities are living out pretty grubby sorts of lives. The government is trying to help (at great expense). This is not part of some conspiracy to take over aboriginal lands or win votes- the government is trying to lend some guidance.
        But the whingers whinge.
        
        And suppose the government stood on the sidelines and did nothing to clean up this mess the communities have made?
        The whingers would whinge.

        Agree (0) Alert moderator

• a racist act :

  29 Aug 2008 8:37:58am

  This intervention by the current and the previous Federal governments is a racist act to grab the land where those Aboriginal Communities are living.
  How can all those children go to school when some schools are as far as 90kms away and there is no adequate means of transport?

  Agree (0) Alert moderator

  • kenl:

    29 Aug 2008 10:42:10am

    When I was living in a remote area (mine site) There was the school of the air when we were young then it was of to town to go to High school. we stayed in the hostel next to the school others went to the city and stayed in full on bording schools.
    
    Simple people do it all the time.
    
    You just need the will to do it.

    Agree (0) Alert moderator

• markz:

  29 Aug 2008 8:41:05am

  When are we going to realise that we can't just walk in and impose our "solution" on real live people and expect them to be grateful when we haven't bothered to understand that those people have to be part of the solution. And a willing part of the solution.
  
  Who did Howard and Brough consult, other than a few pollsters, before they brought in the legislation? Surely anyone with an ounce of common-sense, let alone some management expertise, should have known that a group such as The Australian Indigenous Doctors Association (AIDA) would be vital in having input and forming policy.
  
  One could only conclude that this was an exercise where, if it worked, kudos for the policy makers. If it didn't we can blame the recipients, knowing the majority of the electorate isn't going to worry too much about a great waste of time and money, let alone the outcomes detailed in the report mentioned.
  
  

  Agree (1) Alert moderator

• Eric:

  29 Aug 2008 8:49:00am

  I just don't get it.
  
  Let's just apply what has happened (the intervention) to another construct, how about a white city dwelling family.
  
  1. If a member of this family was found out to be child abuser and the fact made the evening news they would feel shame, humiliation and anger. A human reaction not exclusive to indigenous Australians.
  
  2. Although they understand the need for the police etc. to be spending a lot of time around their house, they would feel some anger and resentment toward them.
  
  3. The financial implications on the family would affect their ability to continue life as normal.
  
  That these things happen is a really bad thing and the people surrounding the villains will be affected and the people doing the intervention will make mistakes. But the long term good must be worth the price paid.

  Agree (0) Alert moderator

• Jack:

  29 Aug 2008 9:06:16am

  We are great at believing the world should toe our line. Its well gone time that we listened and recognised that others have cultures, experiences and opinions that matter, that differ from ours and have been developed over tens of thousands of years to survive in this part of the world. But then that does not fit well with the might is right, my way or the highway view of our ousted leaders of the recent past.

  Agree (0) Alert moderator

  • Green:

    29 Aug 2008 10:57:03am

    Whilst we need to acknowledge and accept alternative cultures, I do not believe that we have to do so in a wholesale fashion.
    
    We need to be selective in what elements of a culture we accept. It is not acceptable for any culture to allow or sanction violence and abuse against others.
    
    While it is right that we should celebrate and maintain most aspects of our aboriginal cultures, any elements which allow for the perpetration of violence should be anathema to us all.

    Agree (0) Alert moderator

• John O:

  29 Aug 2008 9:12:37am

  So many bleeding hearts talk baout white culture and Koori culture. Fine. Lets take away every form of white culture including the doctors.
  
  What would be the result then? I can imagine the uproar.
  
  Problem is people want something for nothing - a lot of these people share something with a lot of white or asian or african etc people - they want money for doing nothing.
  

  Agree (0) Alert moderator

• trent:

  29 Aug 2008 9:29:20am

  The intervention is being imposed upon a people the majority of whom do not want it.
  
  Despite the porpoganda, it is based on the idea that our white way of life is right and the way of life lived in the communities is wrong. It is in many ways yet another attempt to finally solve what is seen as the aboriginal problem with white might.
  
  And forget welfare bludgers. Much of the money headed toward aboriginal communities is siphoned off by white professional administrators and the like who manage to make their fortunes in a short number of years.

  Agree (0) Alert moderator

• GD:

  29 Aug 2008 9:29:42am

  Afghanistan, Arnhem Land, rather similar really. We don't like how those people live their lives, so we send in the army to force them to do it our way. You can dress it up with pretty words all you like.

  Agree (0) Alert moderator

  • RuAlright:

    29 Aug 2008 10:13:08am

    And if we didn't ???
    
    If we didn't "send in the army" as you put it then all we would be doing is spending copious amounts of taxpayers money to help them live. Or are they all going to revert to hunting with spears and living in makeshift huts ?

    Agree (0) Alert moderator

• anthony:

  29 Aug 2008 9:52:08am

  "Indigenous people have been left with a feeling of mistrust and anger towards Western culture"
  
  but...
  
  "...child health checks brought in as part of the intervention to be anything more than the right of all Australians to have access to health care."
  
  You cant have it both ways. Either dislike our culture, enjoy the paradise of the outback and stand on your own two feet- or realise that you need our culture to enjoy good health: At least 'western culture' is trying to fix the backwards happenings in your community's culture.
  

  Agree (0) Alert moderator

• aeron:

  29 Aug 2008 9:59:47am

  I have to admit i find many of the comments posted here very shocking and disturbing. I am hardly surprised that this 'intervention' has been less than successful...it was nothing but a band-aid solution that was ultimately too little too late and implemented by the now (thankfully) former Howard Government who's party has no idea what the concepts 'compassion' or 'social justice' mean. What is needed are sustainable solutions for indigenous communities that are not just forced upon them by the government or other bodies represnting mainstream 'white' society but developed through a process that is inclusive and consultative. Throwing money in the form of this intervention or welfare payments at the problem will not make it going away and are hardly going to improve conditions in these communities and the quality of life of indigenous Australians more generally for years to come. But we DO have to address these important issues....you can't expect indigenous Australians to be on a level pegging with mainstream society after being systematically excluded from that society for most of the period since colonisation and having only been officially recognised as human beings for the last 40 or so years!

  Agree (0) Alert moderator

• Kosta:

  29 Aug 2008 10:00:02am

  Why not have a licence to buy alcohol for everyone?

  Agree (0) Alert moderator

• smurray:

  29 Aug 2008 10:05:02am

  Discussion, consultation and a lot of time are going to be the only ways to solve long term, multidimensional problems.
  
  After ignoring Aboriginal communities that have been asking for assistance for many years, we cannot expect to rush in and impose our "solution" without discussing what exactly the problem/s are - then expect them to be grateful !
  In many cases, what is the answer for one community may not work for another.
  
  For example, aboriginal parents in some NT communities have been trying for a long time to get a teacher to stay there. They know exactly what they want for their kids. Many teachers who are not from the area prefer to live in towns and fly in to communities twice a week. This is not a problem solved by money, but one that will require discussion, strategy and a long term plan.

  Agree (0) Alert moderator

• spewbag:

  29 Aug 2008 10:08:47am

  there is only so much governments and health organisations can do - the most brilliant health service staffed by eminent medicos will not magically bring ill people to it - time for govts etc to step back, stop taking the blame for a culture's self destruction and let Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people determine their destiny for better or worse.

  Agree (0) Alert moderator

• muzz:

  29 Aug 2008 10:50:08am

  I like Doh. He exemplifies the underlying issues.
  His comments ( he can only be a he) are a perfect example of much of the problem. His first comment blames the victims and then his second defensive comment states "the problems of Australia's Aboriginal population".
  
  Sorry Doh. What is clear to many is that "the problem" is held by all the Australian people. Not just Aboriginal Australians. You conveniently dismiss or forget that we all have a shared history and the roots of this history is what leads us to todays complex issues.
  
  Blaming the victim is short sighted and congrats to these Indigenous doctors for being brave enough in the face of ignorance to call a spade a spade. The intervention was doomed to fail cause its a medical policing model that has been shown to not work in many different environments around the world.
  
  When the Dohs of this country are given an honest education about our history, an appreciation of oppression and dispossesion and a sence of empathy for "others' , will Australia move forward together in sorting out our racist ignorant mess.
  

  Agree (0) Alert moderator

• Realist:

  29 Aug 2008 10:50:58am

  I would be willing to bet that today life-expectancy is higher and infant-mortality is lower than before colonisation.
  
  If you want to live as long and as healthily as the "white man" then you need to live like a "white man".
  

  Agree (0) Alert moderator