WA result fuels talk of Nats-Libs split
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Updated
Split proposal: Barnaby Joyce (AAP: Alan Porritt)
The Nationals are considering abandoning their federal coalition with the Liberal Party, with Senator Barnaby Joyce signalling he would support the power shift.
Nationals Leader Warren Truss says the party's strong polling in the West Australian election has prompted him to contemplate splitting from the Liberals at a national level.
WA Nationals leader Brendan Grylls will meet with state Liberal leader Colin Barnett today in an attempt to form a government after neither Labor or the Liberals won enough seats to take power in Saturday's election.
The news is not so good at the federal level, where the Nationals lost control of Mark Vaile's former seat of Lyne in Saturday's by-election.
The former Nationals stronghold was won by independent Rob Oakeshott, who won about 65 per cent of the primary vote.
Senator Joyce, who represents the Queensland Liberal National Party, says the Nationals should pick the most successful model when considering their federal future.
And he described the Lyne loss as a disaster for the party.
"You cannot argue against how the voters judge all this," he said.
"We just have to ... go down the path which is the most likely to succeed, which at this point in time looks like the West Australian model."
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Comments (88)
Comments for this story are closed. No new comments can be added. If you would like to have your say on this issue, you can do so via the Emails section of our Opinion pages.
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Peter :
08 Sep 2008 7:59:23am
The Nationals seem hardly in a position to start talking about a split. The real news of course, from this election, is that Labor are suffering from a voter backlash. Could this also be a shot over the bow federally? I definitely think so.
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Tan:
08 Sep 2008 8:42:31am
I don't think the win in WA will affect Labor federally. That's because for years we had the Coalition in power federally but the states dominated by Labor. Now it looks like Labor will dominate the federal level and the Coalition will dominate in the states, the balance of power is simply shifting.
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Harry:
08 Sep 2008 9:18:30am
If you see where the swing goes in WA, it goes mostly to the Greens - and not much to the Nat's.
The Nationals in their former incarnation as the Country Party had that walk-the-talk feel on issues. And they really need to recover that. And its not about ideological posture, it's about performance. And it's not about defining yourself by oppossing everything the other parties say - it's about serving the best interests of the people. That's the compass.
The Nat's put themselves into ideological corners, and now they have to work themselves out of those corners.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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drew:
08 Sep 2008 10:56:48am
and there was a swing away from the ALP in WA at the Federal Election, which the ALP won.
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Steve:
08 Sep 2008 8:50:21am
Or simply the continuing of what is the norm in Australia different parties in power federally and at the state level.
Of course it's not always like that, but does seem to go that way pretty often.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Ben:
08 Sep 2008 8:52:20am
I wouldn't get to excited about Labor loosing control federally, it seems to me that most voters prefer to have their state run by the opposite party who is in federally (just look at the previous federal government). People fear one party having wall to wall governments of any persuasion and I think we will see most states shift towards the Liberals.
Plus both the NT and WA elections were called early, voter backlash appears also to be a factor here. I feel it is a big warning to the other state Labor parties not to rush an election on the voting public, especially NSW who need a major rebuild first.
Finally, I think it is a good move by the Nationals to talk about splitting (even federally). These days both major parties are right of centre (Liberal of course a little more than Labor), and neither represent rural voters. I think it is time for the Nationals go back to their roots and fight for their voters before they become a spent force like the Democrats.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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hugh from plumbers today:
08 Sep 2008 8:55:12am
if what's being seen is any indication i'd say that labor is in a bit of trouble federally with voters now realising what's really going on rather than kevin 07 propaganda.
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david:
08 Sep 2008 10:32:22am
What's really going on? The Libs in WA, despite the shambolic performance of the ALP over the last few years have only managed a 2.9% swing to it, with most of the swing going to the greens. Hardly a ringing endorsement of the Libs or a great cause for concern for federal ALP. For a conservative resource state like WA with an underperforming government, I would have thought the Libs would have done better than that.
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twobob:
08 Sep 2008 8:56:44am
The real news from this is that the Nats are considering abandoning the coalition (to remain relevant).
Otherwise it appears as if all voters in all areas (WA Lyn and Mayo) are not at all happy with their Labor, National or Liberal representatives.
What a great outcome for Australia, people are starting to think and engage with politics. Safe seats are becoming a thing of the past and the National party might regain some relevance in the nation
PLUS (unmentioned of course) in all seats there was a movement toward the greens
Yee ha, thats what we need Australia, thinking AustraliansAgree (0) Alert moderator
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Harry:
08 Sep 2008 9:44:49am
When it comes down to what symbolises the big difference between the Liberal Party and National Party, I see it as best expressed by the fact that the Lib's are more the party of big business and the Nat's *were* more the party of country people. When the Nat's got too absorbed in the Lib's primary viewpoint of support for big business they lost focus on their electorate. It seemed to be almost as simple as that.
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Paul:
08 Sep 2008 8:57:57am
Peter,
There were no federal implications in the WA result. How could this be a 'shot over the bow' of federal Labor when the Liberals' primary and preferred vote plummetted in the blue-ribbon seat of Mayo?
It's just wishful thinking on behalf of those who can't get their heads around the fact John Howard was defeated at the last election.
The federal coalition is under strain as it usually is after a defeat.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Pen Pal:
08 Sep 2008 9:25:06am
The Federal Liberals are suffering leadership tensions which has permeated through the community. If a different leadership team was in place, the outcome in Mayo would have been entirely different.
At the State level in WA (as in other States) the electorate knows the difference between State and federal issues, but the disappointing matter for the Liberals "over there" is that they didn't pick up the 6% swing against the Labour Party.
The Liberals need to go it alone and develop some social / environmental policies at both a State and Federal level which will neutralise the Greens, but maintain and grow a strong economy.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Doh:
08 Sep 2008 11:16:50am
Agreed. Australian politics is really in the doldrums. Labor stands for nothing. The Liberals stand for less. No wonder the Greens and independents are doing better.
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Daniel Adler:
08 Sep 2008 8:59:51am
You definitely think so? Or are you just hoping so? Different issues come into play in state and federal elections. The federal Liberals have tried to put the blame on the Federal Labor government for WA Labor's loss of their parliamentary majority. Julie Bishop went so far as to try to blame the federal government's proposed tax on gas condensate as the reason for the loss. Most people don't even know what gas condensate is, let alone care to find out. The blame for the Labor loss in WA lies squarely at the feet of Alan Carpenter. He's arrogant and aloof. Calling an election six months early when the main opposition party is in turmoil says two things. Firstly that the Carpenter government wanted the election to be more about not voting for the WA Liberal's and less about voting for the WA Labor party. Secondly it points to the arrogance of Carpenter and his government. While there was a voter backlash against Labor in WA, the Liberal party was not the main beneficiary. Certainly they will gain a number of seats as a result due to voter concentration, but the majority of the swing appears to have gone to the Greens. This is what both major parties should take from this election (and the Mayo and Lyne by-elections). People are growing increasingly tired of party politics. People want a government that is going to act in the best interests of themselves and the rest of the population, not one that is going to spend public time on inter and intra-party fighting. Rediculous as it may sound, "politics" has no place in good government and people want good government.
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Pen Pal:
08 Sep 2008 9:50:17am
Regretfully Daniel, no political system will bring about utopia, but there is more chance of getting something done with the Party political system rather than with a room full on Independents who probably wouldn't agree on anything.
I think the upsurge in interest in Independents only comes about for the reasons you have eloquently stated about the arrogance of the WA State Government. Even for the next WA Government to effectively operate, they will need to get the Nationals & / or Independents to agree to overall policies to allow matters to move forward. If that doesn't happen, WA will be back to the polls in post haste.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Len:
08 Sep 2008 9:22:08am
The results in the two federal by elections on the weekend suggest that the Lib/Nat coalition at Federal level is losing ground. This should not be a surprise. They have been running around like a bunch of headless chooks ever since they lost their prime rooster.
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Brad:
08 Sep 2008 11:03:02am
You are conveniently forgetting that on the same day the National took a big hit in losing Lyne to an independent and the Libs came within a hair's breadth of losing Mayo to the Greens.
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Eric:
08 Sep 2008 7:59:36am
And after the two parties have just merged to form one in Queensland.
The tories are in a mess at all levels of government.
Mayo is solid gold for them and the Libs are struggling to hold off a GREEN in the house of reps!
This is great theatre. More strength to your arm Barnaby.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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left coast:
08 Sep 2008 8:32:42am
The Libs held Mayo.....get it? Downer was taken to the wire by the Democrats winning with just 51.7%.
BARNABY....THE NEW BOB bROWN?Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Gary:
08 Sep 2008 8:46:54am
Or is it Barnaby, the new Peter Beattie [aka media tart]?
Whatever you do, don't stand between him and a camera or microphone!Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Russ:
08 Sep 2008 9:23:44am
Barnaby is the only Nat with balls!
He tells it as he sees it & isn't afraid to ruffle feathers for what he sees as being good.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Gary:
08 Sep 2008 9:37:30am
He talks off the top of his head without thinking first about the consequences of what he says and in the process does lots of damage to his party.
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Pen Pal:
08 Sep 2008 10:41:58am
I believe Senator Joyce is the one member of the Nationals who is doing most damage to that part of the conservative vote.
If I was the Liberal leader, I would avoid him like the plague because nobody knows what he stands for from one day to the next. He bumbles away ad nausem.
If they give him the Nationals Party Presidency, the current numbers in the House of Representatives will probably reduce from 9 to zero. There is only one way for the conservative parties to go and that is under one banner - "The Liberals".
Not many people in these notes seem to have much support for the Liberals right now, but my advice would be is to "watch this space".Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Chris:
08 Sep 2008 9:33:01am
Barnaby's an idiot who shoots his mouth off whenever he see a reporter. He gives plenty of wieght to those who reckon Qld is full of rednecks and Banana Benders.
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Brad:
08 Sep 2008 11:07:18am
The Libs held Mayo, but only just. A 10.5% swing against the Libs in what used to be a very safe seat is a major slap in the face for Nelson.
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bitrich:
08 Sep 2008 7:59:56am
The Nationals destroyed their brand when they ditched 'Country' from their name. Now, thrashing around looking for a life-line they're preparing to rat on their right-of-centre team-mates.
Labor will encourage this no doubt.
Hey, Barnaby, rather than carrying on like Reba Meagher, worrying about your party's interest ahead of the people, why don't you look at the bigger picture and worry about the continuation of Labor mismanagement and spin?Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Jim Bendfeldt:
08 Sep 2008 9:03:16am
Yes, and part of the National Party's interest should be the reintroduction of some level of protectionism for our agriculture and industries.
Protectionism has become a dirty word in politics, especially in recent years when the Free Traders appear to have gained control over both Labor and Liberal parties.
As one Australian government after the other signs up to new Free Trade agreements with China, the US, etc. the US and EU have been protecting their own agriculture and industry.
All we have seen from the Free Trade agreements is one local industry after another folding, and Australians relying more than ever on cheap imports from China.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Ben:
08 Sep 2008 9:13:02am
Got to admit it would make the senate an interesting place. If the Liberals are on their own, that is essentially a four seat turn around in the senate and another party that holds the balance of power. Perhaps Mr Joyce has seen the recent success of the Greens and is paying attention.
Let's face it the clowns in opposition (federally) wouldn't do any better job than the current government (a choice between dumb and dumber it seems at times). To make a government accountable you need a decent opposition, something to remember :)Agree (0) Alert moderator
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martygeeoz:
08 Sep 2008 8:04:22am
Joyce should lead the Nats. And he's right - they do need to stop being yes men for the Libs and start doing what they should have been doing for the last decade - representing their constituents.
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Gary:
08 Sep 2008 8:47:48am
It seems to be the only one Barnaby is representing is Barnaby.
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acker:
08 Sep 2008 8:55:28am
The difference of government investment in money and time across all areas such as these I have listed below compared to metropolitan areas is becoming huge.
Medical (Safe base level of doctors not a luxurious amount)
Telecommunications (otherwise our business and life will go further backwards)
Safe Roads (Not outstanding roads)
Small Business (Atracting them out here where there is plenty of space and reasonable priced housing for workers)
Welfare and Counselling (Centrally based specialists spend half their time in a car getting here)
Public Transport (Near on non exsistant some bigger towns only have part time taxi services or none)
Elderly (Some of the homes seem to have lacked an upgrade in many years, plus staffing issues)
Childcare (Small communities seem to have missed the boat)
Education (Attracting and keeping quality teachers out here instead of losing them to the city or the coast is a problem)
I also have an issue that some government staff in a central regional position that have a big area to control spend more time travelling to and from the areas rather than actually doing what they do.
More unfortunately this gap between country and city has been growing while the Nationals were federally sharing power with the Lib's. Its almost as if other than farm trade matters they were ineffectual.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Gary:
08 Sep 2008 9:35:51am
With the greatest of respect, the amount of money spent on regional areas on a per caput bases grossly exceeds what is spent in the cities.
This will always be the case given the tyranny of distance.
But please, please do not argue for even more spending at the expense of the cities.
Creating a backlash from the cities will be a disaster for the bush. Tread carefully.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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acker:
08 Sep 2008 10:03:42am
Gary when you add to that equation that almost everything you consume in the metropolis originally comes from the country and travels over these country roads to get to you so you can continue to enjoy that metropolitan lifestyle.
I feel justified in asking. In fact if we put a tax on the transportion of food in this country from source to end user, which would be a greenhouse freindly inititave, that could be seen as redressing the balance.
Tread carefully in that city, you may find it is so big that it is unsustainable and you may be looking to move back to rural/regional lifestyle where commuting to work is a more simple and environmentally freindly equation.
A city does not produce foodAgree (0) Alert moderator
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renn:
08 Sep 2008 10:15:48am
A truly inflamitory statement if ever I heard one.
The city needs the country the same as the country needs the city.
You need to get out into the country and see how people live.
They will welcome you.
Fuel is cheaper in the country on weekends, and its good to get out of the rat race (no offence meant) for awhile.
The regional areas rely on tourists, and it is just not happening at the moment. They need your support, not go against them.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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rainbow lover:
08 Sep 2008 8:04:26am
They should split, the merging of the these two parties has done little in the way of helping either, this couldnt come soon enough
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lake 57:
08 Sep 2008 8:22:50am
what dribble.the nat's not supporting the libs?anyone who believes this is deluded. its a dishonest ploy.
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murray from the daintree:
08 Sep 2008 8:52:13am
it could be just what the party needs to revive its flagging fortunes. think out side the box without closing yourself off to other possibilities. a dishonest ploy is often the best one.
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LOZZA:
08 Sep 2008 8:10:37am
If Labour are suddenly prepared to form a co-alition with the Nationals after all these years, I see that to be nothing more than a sign of desperation to stay in power.
Once again showing politicians of all parties to have questionable standards.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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RGG:
08 Sep 2008 8:54:14am
The NATS have been working with Labor In South Australia for a while now.
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OLDIE:
08 Sep 2008 8:11:30am
Sounds like a good idear
The Nats should be a separate identity, they lost this when they teamed with the Libs, when voting for change, thats what it should be, not just the same old thing.
But then they are only Pollies, YUKAgree (0) Alert moderator
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Richo:
08 Sep 2008 8:18:29am
there is no way to be sure the west australian model will be any better, this merger hasnt done much for either party and they should split for the benefit of both
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Curly:
08 Sep 2008 8:27:58am
How about they do what the electorate voted for - no leader but something even better - a DEMOCRATIC parliament that makes informed decisions for the greater good of the state rather than the narrow minded selfish decision making of political party self interest motivated by greed for power and control of money.
What a strange outcome where the Nationals with 5% of the primary vote get 4 seats yet the Greens with more than twice that primary vote get nothing....does that mean that 12% of those who voted are unrepresented?Agree (1) Alert moderator
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Jordon:
08 Sep 2008 8:48:47am
"does that mean that 12% of those who voted are unrepresented?"... that's what the upper house is for.
The Libs got more votes overall then labor but won less seats.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Eric:
08 Sep 2008 8:55:19am
Australia isn't Zimbabwe. Nobody gets 100% of the primary vote.
That means that anything up to 50% of the electorate don't get the candidate they voted for.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Kocsonya:
08 Sep 2008 10:20:14am
"does that mean that 12% of those who voted are unrepresented?"
Essentially, yes. That's the way the voting system works. The same is true on the federal level. The Greens had more votes countrywide than the Nats, yet the Greens have no seat in the lower house, while the Nats have a handful.
In the lower house the absolute number of votes is less important than the number of places where a specific party's supporters are concentrated. Green supporters are spread out fairly evenly while Nat supporters are concentrated in a few districts. Therefore they get representation and the Greens do not.
Assume a country with 4 parties, A, B, C, and D of which D has a nationwide support of 40%. Let the country have 3 voting districts, where the remaining 60% of the vote is divided between A, B and C as 50,5,5 then 5,50,5 and finally 5,5,50. For the sake of simplicity, leave the preferences out, they will not change the result. After the election you will have 33.3% percent representation of A, B and C in parliament, with no D at all, even though A, B and C each are only supported by 20% of the country's population while D has a 40% support. Strange as it is, it works that way.
The senate is different, that's why the Greens and up until the last election the Democrats won seats there.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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mark:
08 Sep 2008 8:28:59am
The real message here is the attrocious state of Australian politics... WA, NSW, Tas and Qld Labor have been terrible for years. The only reason they are still in is that the oppositions are even worse.
The only reason Howard stayed in so long is that Federal Labor were apalling. Along comes Capt. Kev (who is pretty average at best), and the voters dump the Govt in huge numbers.
The real message Barnaby should be taking is not that the WA conservatives are any good, but that he and his contemporaries are setting a really low standard.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Labor pains:
08 Sep 2008 8:32:55am
The Nat's shouldn't jump ship just because of their failure in NSW's by-election; the good folk of W.A have ousted the ALP for its poor representation of the common man and this is a deeper problem on the East Coast than many want to admit to. The ALP once had a sincere purpose to the average man some time ago however they have lost that loving feeling and it is more obvious than ever that they only represent a very small proportion of the community and rule with incompetence and lies and it take's a lot hard times and added taxs to fix their botched governance once the common folks rose coloured glasses fall off.
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TeddySea:
08 Sep 2008 8:33:18am
I'm sickened by the solid, choreographed line of nastiness and spite from the 'opposition'. I would wish that ALL our elected members could work together for the good of Australia.
If we had a few bigger parties (and the Greens are getting up) perhaps there could be co-operation. Go Barnaby!Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Delta:
08 Sep 2008 9:09:30am
Most of the minor parties are spawned by the "don't know" section of the community. They are neither left, right or centre, Originally the "Nationals" were the NCP which looked mainly to the farming and agricultural community. But since their original leaders have passed on, they now wander aimlessly in the deserts looking for how they can survive, searching for that greener paddock.
Like the the Democrats (ex Democratic Labor Party - a breakaway group from Labor) they will fade into oblivion, the reason, a leopard cannot change its spots and if you look at their originals and activities, their sole purpose of the DLP was to disrupt either the major right or left wing parties from doing the job they were elected to do and could not be relied on to stay on their side of the fence.
The same goes for the so-called independents they are nothing but a fly in the ointment of stable government.
Australia is no longer developing country, we have a strong place in the world economy and its time we stood on our own and became a republic.... But that's another story !Agree (0) Alert moderator
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NT boy:
08 Sep 2008 9:35:43am
Tasmania gained much for our fly in the ointment when our single senator held the balance of power.. sometimes I believe he made the wrong decisions federally but always to ensure a benifit for the state he loved. Give me more flies rather than a great mass of grey nodding yes men & women
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Eric:
08 Sep 2008 9:39:22am
Sorry Delta, a little confused here.
The "Democrats" were a breakaway party lead by Don Chipp a former Liberal Party member.
The DLP (Democratic Labour Party) split from the ALP in the fifties and were mainly a Catholic faction from Victoria. The very entertaining, if somewhat misguided, Bob Santamaria never stood for office but was their public voice.
I think there is a Victorian MP who has revived the name DLP but is not the same party, they died off in the late '70s.
Both wielded a bit of power in their day but eventually became irrelevant.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Pen Pal:
08 Sep 2008 11:07:58am
Oh Delta - I am always bemused when somebody goes off at a tangent such as you have, which has no bearing on the subject matter at hand
You're not a member of the NSW State Government are you??Agree (0) Alert moderator
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anthony:
08 Sep 2008 8:37:07am
They can talk of splits all they want but the most important thing is that they establish exactly where they lie in regards their political identity.
As a conservative voter I voted for a Nationals candidate in the lower house of the WA election as he was the best candiate between the Lib and Nats on the basis of performance for the electorate (because of the new electorate boundaries I had 2 current members to choose from).
However more importantly I was voting to acheive a change in government. There is no way I would have voted NAtional if I had known my vote would be used to assist the Labor government to remain in office.
They can not sit on the fence during the campaign and then afterwards decide to form a partnership with LAbor. For this reason the future of the NAtionals as a political force, small as it is, rests with what happens in WA. If they assist the LAbor government back into office they have effectively branded themselves as left wing and for that reason so many who currently support them with leave and move to the Libs.Agree (1) Alert moderator
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renn:
08 Sep 2008 9:29:20am
You should have know better! The last election in Victoria I voted against the sitting National party member as he has done 'diddly squat' (nothing) for our electorate.
This man owns a service station with opposition down the road.
He didnt do all that well because the opposition down the road are good workers prepared to work long hours to keep their head above water.
This National Party man went to a so called 'independant brand' (I suspect imported fuel) overnight dropped his price 8 cents below the other,where it stayed for awhile. Selling below terminal gate price. Preditory I would say. Every time the other servo changes its price he changes his to remain 3 cents below. Consistantly.
Not good business ethics if you ask me.
Makes me wonder what info. has is privy to regarding imported fuels.
Its fair to say he will never get my vote.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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renn:
08 Sep 2008 9:49:24am
It has got to the stage where when you vote you have to know before the time where your vote will go. At the last federal election most people voting green didnt know their vote preferences would go to the ALP. It was not well advertised prior to election.
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Gary:
08 Sep 2008 8:43:19am
First there is a merger in Queensland ... with Liberal voters [if not the party members] running to find someone else to vote for.
Then a possible Labour / National coalition in WA.
Total and abject failure in Lyne.
A split of the federal coalition?
Does the word disarray ring any bells?Agree (0) Alert moderator
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RGG:
08 Sep 2008 8:48:35am
I always believed that coalitions should be formed after elections and not before. Definitely not in opposition. It defeats the purpose of being a different entity.
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NT boy:
08 Sep 2008 8:50:35am
The Nats as the new Democrats.. well, we need someone to take the space left as an independant voice between tweedle Dee and tweedle dum
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John O:
08 Sep 2008 8:54:42am
Ridiculous. What the Nationals don't seem to realise is that many of the people who vote for them would've voted Libs if that option was available. In a lot of Country areas they are a de facto Liberal party. The sooner they realise the only way they can help their constituents is to form coalition the better.
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renn:
08 Sep 2008 8:56:04am
Is federal ALP holding the nationals to ranson?
We wont fund your projects if you go with the liberals?
This country is going down the gurgler since ALP were elected.
I still hear "what John Howard did to the ordinary people".
What did John Howard do wrong? It is all hear say and spin.
I can see the ALP has hurt this country more in 9 months than the Liberal govt. did in 12 yearsor ever.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Gary:
08 Sep 2008 9:27:50am
"What did John Howard do wrong?"
As a person who has voted Liberal more than Labor during my life ... where do I begin?
Howard had no vision for the country. Howard squandered the riches generated by the best terms of trade we have seen in a generation on cynical bribes to win elections while the nation's physical and social infrastructure crumbled. He denied climate change. He oversaw a sharp decline in Australia's capacity to influence world events by aligning himself so closely with George Bush. He took us into Iraq - and lost sight of the main game, Afganistan. He allowed the terrorists a vistory by taking away our rights and tried to turn one Australian against another. He introduced workchoices for idealogical and not economic reasons [only bad employers ever supported this abomination]. He targetted the weak and vulnerable. He ignored the need for sound fiscal policy leading to a massive focus on monetary policy ... aka rising interest rates. He pandered to the basest desires of people - "if I am better off then the government is good". He was so arrogant he couldnt see the damage he was doing to his own party and the country and left both in tatters when the public spoke at last year's election.
I could keep going ... but suggest we simple accept that the Howard legacy will be one of enormous wasted opportunity and move on.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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renn:
08 Sep 2008 10:24:13am
John Howard didnt pander to the public service because that is inflationary.
Workchoices was introduced to support businesses thru the global credit crisis. Again I have spoken to hundreds of people and not one bad personal experience. Everyone was happy with their work choice agreement.
Its soooo easy to decieve people with hear say and spin.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Eric:
08 Sep 2008 10:53:34am
... and Howard was the master of spin, he span the Tampa into an election winner.
Work Choices was a fraud designed to once and for all put the unions to the sword. Why did the unions spend so many millions fighting against it? They knew that if the tories won the last election and Work Choices survived it could mean the end of trade unions as a political force once and forever. For them it was survival.
It was driven by Howard's idealogies and the tories desire to undermine the wealth base of the ALP.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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renn:
08 Sep 2008 11:09:31am
'Tampa' happened one or two days before the cease advertising period before the election.
You have listened to the spin if you believe 'TAMPA' won the Howard govt. victoryAgree (0) Alert moderator
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renn:
08 Sep 2008 11:00:20am
Climate change WAS being addressed by the Howard govt.
The ALP hobbled the liberals advertising.
Australian soldiers in Iraq have trained Iraqis to help themselves. They have provided security for the teams rebuilding Iraq. Would you prefer Saddam?
We have lost more lives and had more injuries in Afganistan this year than in the history of the Howard govt.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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MS:
08 Sep 2008 8:56:38am
I didn't vote National but it now looks like they'll be holding all the power, not happy, Jan!
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Harry:
08 Sep 2008 8:58:57am
There are a number issues where the National Party would have chosen a different course if it wasn't for their Coalition with the Liberal Party, and in some cases, those compromises with the Liberal's have lost them electoral support in the country, which seems to manifest as being out-of-touch. Too much ideology and not enough connection with people. Connection with people was the former Country Party's strong point.
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Rob:
08 Sep 2008 9:04:21am
Seems intriguing to me that the Nationals are prepared to sell out on every other issue in an attempt to get their way on one issue.
The Nat's wonder why they are dying, it's because of stunts like this. It's pretty clear that the WA Nat's stand for nothing but Mining royalties issue.
To my knowledge, most Nats would vote Liberal before they would vote Labor. If I am correct, then I would suggest that a lot of Nationals voters will be looking elsewhere when Brendan Gryll signs up with the Carpenter Govt.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Garry:
08 Sep 2008 10:54:10am
If NSW at state and federal level is anything to go by, most Nat voters would vote Independent than vote Liberal - country people seem to want someone local to look after their towns, roads and viability, rather than a main party yes man. Torbay and Windsor have two of the safest seats in the country.
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heolesgyn:
08 Sep 2008 9:08:26am
Voters who supported the Nationals on Saturday would be devastated that Grylls is even considering a union with the Labor Party. Methinks this is the beginning of the end for the National Party...........
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Brizer:
08 Sep 2008 9:37:55am
The Nationals and Labor have a lot more in common on economic policy than the Nats and the Libs. The main difference between the Nats and ALP is social policy (gay law reform, etc) and, in the event of a WA ALP-National Coalition this could be managed with conscience votes.
The big economic difference in WA is uranium mining and frankly I think Carpenter should eat some humble pie, admit he's personally against it but acknowledge the voters aren't and seek a middle ground between open slather and an outright ban.
Federally, Warren Truss would be well advised to take a good hard look at what Brendon Grylls has achieved in WA. The redistribution there (ending the gerrymander which had given many rural voters twice the representation of city folk) was predicted to spell the end for the Nats but instead they have done well.
To be a true voice of the regions the Nationals need to break their ties with the Libs and find their independent voice. Their coalition has been a disaster for the regions; telecommunications, transport, water management, government services, etc all suffered because the Libs were able to progress their economic rationalist agenda with the Nationals' complicity.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Ben:
08 Sep 2008 9:13:22am
It would not be in the best interests of the National Party to split from the coalition considering that the Liberal National Party in Queensland is running so efficiently, especially since there were worries that the party would not work.
The National Party is not only ideologically similar to the Liberal Party, but its membership base is very steadily being lost to the Liberal Party. Any attempt to break from the Federal coalition could result in a heavy loss in members from the National Party, which would seal the death of the party.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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NT boy:
08 Sep 2008 9:43:37am
or it may go the other way and we see a forth individual party rise to ensure better governance
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MH:
08 Sep 2008 9:36:36am
A movement toward the Greens means that people are finally getting the message about global warming and the future of this land we live on. We are finally snapping out of our thirteen years of apathy and the right wing rhetoric we've been fed for so long. If we truly want to 'Advance Australia Fair' we must think of the health of the very land we use for our livelihoods, the land that provides our resources.
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smee:
08 Sep 2008 9:46:03am
I've always seen the Nats as country liberals, and I am sure thats how their electrate regards them. Better they fly their colours at state level than do the dirty at federal level.
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Garth:
08 Sep 2008 9:46:11am
It's an interesting political scenario. The Nationals are in terminal decline and are clutching at straws in taking comfort out of the WA situation, which, whatever happens now, is a one term arrangement. Brendan Nelson wants to bring forward the NSW elections so that the electorate can speak! But what do the NSW electors do with the choice between an incompetent Government and an unworthy and pedestrian Opposition? But then, Nelson ought to be a little concerned about the Federal scene and his own leadership, as the Coaition has managed to get a thrashing by an Independent in a blue riband conservative seat and almost lose Alexander Downer's Liberal stronghold in Mayo, to the Greens. It takes great talent to do all of that when the other main party, the Labor Party, did not contest either of them. And finally, what an appalling effort by the Liberal and Nationals to create history by not being in government in any State or Territory of Australia! We live in difficult times. Of that there is no doubt. And perhaps the electorate is a little unrealistic to think that we should remain untouched by the economic and other problems that confront the rest of the world. It's not easy, but a less less self interest and a little more public interest on the part of all politicians might help.
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Taiabada:
08 Sep 2008 9:55:11am
What on earth are the Nats talking about! The swing against labour, percentage-wise, was to the Greens and the Libs and a tiny bit to the Nats who so far show a grand total of 4 wins.! Sadly, they are becoming less relevant in our politics and could soon well go the way of the Dems.
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lean:
08 Sep 2008 9:56:36am
Without the long term cooperation and partnership National party may disappear just like the Democrat.
People vote for the Green should release they are voting for labor since the Green will give preference to Labor most of the time.
When people are out of job and have bill to pay, then they will change their mind before voting Green. It wont be long, keep dreaming!Agree (0) Alert moderator
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abno:
08 Sep 2008 10:09:36am
The real lesson to learn from the WA poll is the pathetic state of Australias' Democracy.
The Nationals get 4.9% of the vote and win 4 seats, Independents get 9.1% and win three seats. The Greens, however, get 11.5% of the vote and win no seats at all.
Our "Representative Democracy" is less a Democracy of the peoples' representatives and more like a mere representation of a democracy.
All thinking Australians should be appalled.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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david:
08 Sep 2008 10:14:33am
Did read somewhere that the nationals are the only political party in the world that supposedly represents rural interests. Good to see such a narrowly focussed "federal" party gradually being turned into an irrelevance.
rural daveAgree (0) Alert moderator
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Michael:
08 Sep 2008 10:18:01am
Most of the comments here reflect the common view that the Nationals are just a poor man's liberal party. If they are to survive they should split from the Liberals and create their own identity before it is too late. Staying in partnerhips with the liberals has seen the National party continue to decline across Australia at both state and federal level.
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spewbag:
08 Sep 2008 10:19:26am
a large part of the WA result was due to a very badly run campaign - for example, it is bewildering that Carps released internal polling (twice!!!) in effort to grab 'underdog' status which did nothing except convince the swingers that they had a real chance of ousting him. But most damaging was his decision to allow his MPs to interact with subhumans Burke and Grill after Gallop had done such a fine job in keeping these worthless slugs out. So I guess WA is more a case of bad advice and strategies by the ALP machine which obviously is due for a major service.
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Marty:
08 Sep 2008 10:28:46am
Leaving the Libs at the altar is a really good idea. The reason the Nats did so badly in the 2007 Federal election is because Howard's extreme industrial relations regime really hurt workers in regional and rural Australia; and because the Nats let Howard flog Telstra and leave the bush marooned in the 19th Century.
The Liberals are right wing nut cases with no idea about what life in the country is really all about. We need the Nationals to fight for the bush - not follow the Vaile model of sucking up to Howard and getting jobs for the boys in Parliament.
It's time for the Nats to remember why they exist and who votes for them. Otherwise, as the last election showed, we regional residents are going to get rid of the Nats and find quality independent candidates who will fight for the interests of the bush.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Norton:
08 Sep 2008 10:47:01am
Senator Joyce's suggestion is to turn the Nats from being part of a major party, to become the new Democrats?
Anyway, his scheme would only work if the Nats could win seats from Labor, then be able to call the shots by being the "independent" balance of power in the lower house.
I think the decline of the Nats has more to do with their candidates, considering two (or is it three?) of their ex Nats members are now sitting as Independents. They obviously have the support of the electorate, even they are no longer part of the Nats, and may technically have less influence.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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smee:
08 Sep 2008 10:47:15am
To look at it from the bright side all the polies will have to work very hard in this situation. We might get some meaningful debate rather than "party lines". It will sure slow down crap legislation.
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John:
08 Sep 2008 10:58:01am
It's fantastic to see the major parties getting hammered.
The death of the two major parties would be the best result Australia could ever hope for. Let's vote in a bunch of independents, who will put their constituents and the nation above party allegiances.
While we are at it, let's do away with career politicians. These would be kings have no idea of life outside their cloisters. The rise of the career politician is closely linked to the rising stench of Australian party politics. The "divine right of career politicians" includes the acceptance of donations (bribes to normal people) and the feathering their political fortunes at the cost of the country.
Let's return to government for the people *by* the people by electing one of us: a person who actually lives like the rest of us and will continue to do so after leaving office.Agree (0) Alert moderator